Okay last round of reader questions before we have to ask for a new batch. These are culled from the last "Ask Nathaniel" column as well as the open thread. Let's talk Wonder Woman and Oscar, "Strong Roles for Women," and more.
MARIE: Who are the next 3 women that should win the AFI Life Achievement Award?
NATHANIEL: A timely question since Diane Keaton just won hers. But I had to look back at who has previously been nominated to come up with an answer. Living female winners number only five: Diane Keaton (2017), Jane Fonda (2014), Shirley Maclaine (2012), Meryl Streep (2004), and Barbra Streisand (2000) with the other twelve winners in this new century being men (both actors and directors have won). It's actually a tough question because they have to be alive and *really* famous to get this honor and also elderly (though Streep was young for this honor taking it when she was 54ish I think). They also have to be American (for the most part) so I looked only at people who are almost 60 or older and this is what I came up with...
I would probably choose from among these five next:
- Julie Andrews (81 years old. Yes she's British but AFI has made exceptions before with Liz Taylor who was also a Brit but was so closely associated with American classics)
- Annette Bening (59 years old)
- Faye Dunaway (76 years old -- less respected than she should be and such a great filmography
- Liza Minnelli (71 years old, Miss Showbiz!)
- Michelle Pfeiffer (59 years old. Young for this but SOMEONE has to start recognizing her as one of the all time greats and we will keep proselytizing until the media does)
But I suspect AFI will next choose:
• Jessica Lange who is still an awards darling. Or...
• Sally Field who is still challenging herself and working hard to prove her mettle in her sixth decade of fame despite ample evidence that we should have long since learned to respect her gift.
Still with us and old enough: (though I have doubts that they'd go there for a wide variety of reasons)... Glenn Close, Angela Lansbury, Cloris Leachman, Lee Grant, Ann-Margret, Raquel Welch, Stockard Channing, Bette Midler, Cher, Kim Novak, Terri Garr, Bernadette Peters, Kathy Bates, Dianne Wiest, Pam Grier, Kathryn Bigelow, Kim Basinger, Kathleen Turner, Debra Winger, Whoopi Goldberg, Sissy Spacek, Goldie Hawn, Sigourney Weaver, Piper Laurie, Rita Moreno, Cicely Tyson, Glynis Johns, Olivia de Havilland, Joanne Woodward, Tippi Hedren, Sharon Stone, and Anjelica Huston
READY: With so much love out there for Wonder Woman, does that give the film any better odds of picking up an Academy nod in the tech categories like special effects or costumes?
NATHANIEL: I already freaked out with judgment on twitter over a THR clickbait headline two weeks back about "can Wonder Woman be Best Picture nominated?" because we have seen that headline for literally every single blockbuster that performed above expectations for the past 8 years. I think this trend started with Star Trek (2009) and has even landed on films as obviously never-gonna-happen as Fast and the Furious, you know? So it would be hypocritical of me to make a big deal about this.
Let it suffice to say that it will get one or two nominations if the fates are kind and it has a strong campaign... which we should remember is pretty good for a superhero picture! Much of its Oscar fate probably depends on what the reaction to Justice League is in November. If that team-up is greeted as viciously as Batman v Superman, some of the glow from Diana's tiara will wear off. If it's better than anyone is expecting and Wonder Woman is the MVP yet again (being the only bright spot in the previous Bat & Supes show) I'd say her film has got a decent shot at nominations. The film is probably not a serious contender for visual FX (since there's some WB/DC sloppiness and always a ton of competition in that category) but I think the costumes are a vague possibility given Hemmings skill and reputation. If it were ever possible to understand what the makeup and hair branch is looking for, that would seem doable, too, given Gadot's perpetually awesome locks, the period hair elsewhere, and Dr. Poison's disfigurement.
ELLSWORTH: The phrase 'strong roles for women' is often used by critics, talent & media in general, when describing what is really a complex character. Personally it drives me a little crazy because 'strong' seems like a lazy word. Female characters should be messy, complex, funny, weak, dominant, cruel, insecure ..and yes, strong. But strong seems to be the go to word that equates to the ideal. Maybe I'm being oversensitive - but I'm curious - do you see this trend in using the word strong, and what are your thoughts on that?
NATHANIEL: I absolutely hear what you're saying and agree from a semantics perspective -- there are a ton of complex characters that are nothing like role models. But I think the use of the word "strong" boils down to a combination of the word's actual flexible meaning (which can denote a superior example of anything really) and a instinctual gauntlet thrown down at the fact that sexism has often deemed women "weak". So, we should probably let it slide but be thankful for anyone with a larger vocabulary or a thesaurus who thinks up other ways to describe great opportunities for female thespians.
Monty in "Red River"COREY: What is the most significant gap in your film experience knowledge that you want to remedy at some point in the future? Any directors, genre, era you should get to know better?
NATHANIEL: Westerns and Noirs are my weak spots in terms of genre. I love noir but I've always felt that it's such a specialty of so many cinephiles and critics that I'd never really be able to "catch up" as it were and even if I could, what could I add to a conversation already that robust? So that kind of killed my desire to really study it.
With westerns the problem remains a lack of interest though I'm sure there are multiple great ones out there that I haven't seen. The westerns I do unequivocally love, like Red River and Johnny Guitar, suggest that other westerns worth loving exist.
V: I have been thinking about female directors and second chances, or the lack of. Karyn Kusama came to mind this week after Wonder Woman became such a hit. Karen did this great indie and went to do a big Blockbuster that was a stinker, but unlike male directors who share the same fate never got a new chance to play the game and works mostly in TV. A common story sadly. Do you think Jenkins breaking records and ALL that she's accomplished will change the state of things at least a bit?
NATHANIEL: I dont want to be a killjoy but as with the revival of musicals, it's really hard to change perceptions when perceptions don't want to be changed. It usually takes more than one big winner for people to be all like "yes, this is feasible / marketable!" We've seen Hollywood deny the obvious about the female audience for a couple of decades now (it's weird how sexist the movies got in the past two decades because when I was a kid there was more gender parity in leading roles and hit films and even in Oscar's Best Picture lineups). We've also seen them deny the obvious fact that your gender does not determine your ability to direct something audiences might like either.
Penny Marshall directed three big hits in a row from 1988 through 1992, two of them joining the $100+ million club and it still didn't convince Hollywood that women could be successful helming mainstream studio pictures.
Notice how nobody ever brings up Penny Marshall (A League of Their Own), Penelope Spheeris (Wayne's World), or Amy Heckerling (Clueless) who each directed multiple mainstream hits between the mid 80s and mid 90s in this discussion; it's like we have to have the same conversation every decade with new test cases. Hopefully Jenkins success will not be a standalone. If DuVernay can manage a big hit with Wrinkle in Time and we can get a couple more hits, too, then we will see a noticeable change. But Jenkins can't change the world alone. It always takes multiple heroes to save the day.
YOUR TURN READERS. Sound off on your dream AFI recipients, Wonder Woman's Oscar chances and more...