NO OTHER LAND | © Antipode Films

CLÁUDIO: War, ethnic cleansing, sexual assault, anti-colonial fight, and more ethnic cleansing - this year's Best Documentary Feature Oscar race has it all. As often happens, the populist fare and celebrity-focused docs got a lot of precursor attention but failed to convince the Academy's more politically-minded Academy branch. No Super/Man: The Christopher Reeve Story or Jim Henson: Idea Man here. That leaves us with no fluff or even the potential for levity, no feel-good conclusion or catharsis of any sort. And, to be honest, these pictures and the race in general are better for it. But it does make it hard to discuss, which is why I'm elated that I got such a great conversation partner. If anyone can make this convo enjoyable, if not outright fun, it's you, Ben.

BEN: Nothing brings me more joy to talk about than five films that are big fat bummers.  I do wish we had something with a little more light or levity, but that is the byproduct of documentaries in general.  They depict real life, and our real lives are bummers right now…

That being said, I find it fascinating that all five films are specifically depicting a terrible occurrence, but they all feature a captivating central figure or figures.  It's one thing to depict the realities of the Ukraine war, it's another to have little doggy Frodo hopping around in fields as he dodges mines.  I view this race as a reflection of the important issues at hand in our world and I think the documentary branch reflected that, eschewing lighter fare like Super/Man or Will and Harper.  Do you think the world climate led to these nominees? 

CLÁUDIO: It's certainly part of it. Then again, when the world stood at a standstill during the height of the pandemic, this branch committed to a feel-good bit of nature non-fiction, unlike the political works they tend to honor as of late. My Octopus Teacher shows me that, sometimes, the voters' reaction to real-life horror can be a refuge in lighter material. Not so this year. I think a lot of it comes down to a branch that's more international than ever, world events sparking revolt and anger over escapism, but also an appreciation of filmmakers taking risks. Whether formal or personal, the subjects and the artists behind these nominees tend to come off as bold forces putting themselves on the line for the works they gave us.

Did you notice how, one way or another, all these movies are about journalists or artists reckoning with injustice? And often, these people are the directors themselves as in No Other Land and Black Box Diaries. Soundtrack to a Coup d'État examines anti-colonial fight from the perspective of African-American musicians whose art was weaponized by the government in an act of imperialist subterfuge. Porcelain War is quite literal in its view of war through the eyes of artists resisting the apocalypse in Ukraine, while Sugarcane is very forward about how its makers are personally invested and part of the communities affected by these colonial practices. 

They mostly force us to reckon with systemic and historical horrors that aren't as over as one would like to presume. No Other Land, Soundtrack and Sugarcane go all-in on dismantling a passive view of colonialism and empire by confronting us with a more complex reality. And Black Box Diaries does similar things when considering the political, social and cultural aspects of Japanese life that allow sexual abuse and misogyny to prevail, mostly uncontested and silently supported. These movies make one incensed, they function as much as art as galvanizers for outrage. They're less about coddling the viewer than confronting and challenging them.

PORCELAIN WAR | © Picturehouse

This is also why I think Porcelain War, the nominee that is least challenging and whose perspective most encompasses hope, will win the Oscar. Because, while only the documentary branch votes for the nominees, the entire Academy decides the winner and I'm not sure they'll be that into the confrontation baked into so many of these films.

BEN: Very interesting.  I was just about to ask your thoughts on the nominees if No Other Land wasn't in the picture.  Do you really think it won't win?  I feel like it's one of the safest categories to predict.  I was a fan of Porcelain War but I'm not sure I'll feel good about it winning.  No Other Land is so essential to this moment in time.  If Porcelain War were to win, this would be the third straight documentary win having to do with Russia/Ukraine.  Is that a trend the Academy wants to continue? 

I see No Other Land as the anti-Porcelain War.  In the latter, these people want to be artists and live their lives, but this war keeps getting in the way.  They deviate and have moments of quiet reflection and artistry, but their obligations keep bringing them back in.  On the flipside, the subjects of No Other Land can't separate from what is happening around them.  I'm not saying hopelessness is more endearing or more worthy of awards, but there is a throughline between the two. 

CLÁUDIO: Sadly, I think there's still a great reluctance to extend the same sort of empathy toward PalestineanS suffering under Israel as has been done to the Ukrainian people whose country was invaded by Russia. I don't want to get into politics to the point we stop even considering these works' cinematic merits, but I feel No Other Land losing the BAFTA indicates that many in the industry will refuse to vote for it or maybe even watch it. And again, while not wanting to make this a conversation on global politics and reactionary actions, Trump's comments on Ukraine have been on the news during the last days of voting, which could make some see a Porcelain War victory as a form of protest against the current American President.

That's not to say Porcelain War would be undeserving on those grounds. I find it the least exemplar of the five, sure, but it's got a lot going for it, including gorgeous cinematography that insists on finding beauty in the Ukranian land even as it's destroyed by warfare. And then there are the little bits of animation, a charming gesture that provides more formalist interest than anything in Black Box Diaries or Sugarcane.

SUGARCANE | © National Geographic Documentary Films

BEN: Do you think the relative unavailability hurts these nominees?  Sugarcane has been on Disney+ for months, but that's the only one that is readily available.  It's nice being a critic and having the ability to get access to these titles, but we had to seek them out.  Shouldn't they be more accessible?

CLÁUDIO: I'm not sure the availability hurts the nominees because voters can access all of them easily. It does mean some are not discussed as much as they should amid the non-industry, non-critic public. Then again, has any documentary been discussed more this year than the mostly undistributed No Other Land? And as much as Sugarcane's availability has helped it, I struggle to find people talking about it with great passion or in great numbers. But to answer your question, yes. They should all be available and, quite honestly, everyone should check these five films. Cinema shouldn't exist merely as an educational tool, but I think this quintet has much to teach, to inform, to impart and inflame. Did you feel that when watching them?

BEN: As a whole, I really enjoy all five of these films in vastly different ways.  In fact, I would argue this category, despite being one of the most drastically underseen, is consistently the nominees with the highest top-to-bottom quality.  I also think that's the real beauty of what the Oscars accomplishes.  I would have never given a film like Soundtrack to a Coup d'État much of a look if it wasn't for the Oscars, and now that I've seen it, I have definite opinions about the lack of diversity outside of the Documentary branch to accept these films.  I wrote a piece back in 2022 about how Summer of Soul should have had an editing nomination. 

As far as education, these films are vital to understanding a part of the world I otherwise wouldn't have begun to investigate.  Now, I have an informed opinion on Belgians in the Congo, or the Canadian Residential School system.  If these films inspired to light a fire of comprehension under their intended audience, then it worked wonders with me.

BLACK BOX DIARIES | © MTV Documentary Films

I do want to talk about Black Box Diaries for a moment.  While I very much found the film to be enthralling, informative, and frustrating, the director/subject Shiori Itō is a conundrum for me.  While I cannot sing the praises of her bravery loud enough, the film had some journalistically icky aspects I didn't love.  Not that it didn't minimize the impact of the story being told, but there is an odd correlation between a woman who was assaulted without her consent attempting to find these layers of truth by recording people without their consent. 

Is there a film in this lineup that you have some odd hang-up with?

CLÁUDIO: This reminds me of the ethical conundrums I came up against when writing an essay about Shoah back in college. The way Claude Lanzmann recorded his interactions with former Nazi officials has caused great debates in the scholar and documentarian community, bringing up issues of ethics and journalistic practices. And if one's target in these violations matters in their validity. One could argue that the systemic blockages in place mean this is the only method for ascertaining truth and transparency. On the other hand, Shiori Itō presents footage of many people, gradations of culpability and knowledge galore. Does the intended purpose and message of Black Box Diaries justify the means? When 20 Days in Mariupol won the Oscar, I had conversations about this with a friend who was very upset at various times throughout that doc when people specifically asked not to be filmed. Yet, their images still appeared on the final cut, violating their consent and autonomy in a work that purports to advocate for them. It's complicated and uncomfortable and I have no definitive answers.

In terms of odd hang-ups of my own, I hate a lot of the scoring choices in modern non-fiction filmmaking. Porcelain War drove me up the wall with the soundtrack's forcefulness. I get wanting to foreground Ukranian culture and music. Still, it's so often overbearing, demanding a reaction to the images and severing the audience's ability to think on their own about what the footage means to them. That's part of why I love Soundtrack to a Coup d'État. Now, there's a documentary that uses music purposefully, without feeling like a cheap piece of emotional manipulation, but an element as much in conversation with the material and the spectator as the images and textual citations. 

Indeed, I'd love to live in a world where Soundtrack to a Coup d'État could have competed in such categories as Editing, Sound, even Picture. Or Porcelain War in Cinematography for its sheer beauty, No Other Land in Editing for its Sisyphean rhythms. And let's give some flowers to Sugarcane's directorial restraint, how Emily Kassie and Julian Brave NoiseCat suggest deep feeling without compromising their interviewee's unwillingness to break down before the camera. In every one of those categories, there's at least one Oscar nominee I'd drop so these non-fiction gems could shine.

Would you nominate any of these five documentaries beyond this specific race? Do they deserve it over some of the current nominees?

SOUNDTRACL TO A COUP D'ÉTAT | © Kino Lorber

BEN:  Animation and Documentaries are still stuck in the "they are their own thing" with the Academy.  I agree on the Editing and Sound for Soundtrack as well as Sound for No Other Land.  That film also landed in my Top 10 of the year, so I would have been perfectly happy with a Best Picture nomination.  Documentaries have never really sniffed the BP lineup before outside of very rare occasions.  The overall quality has become much more universal, and I think we'll see a documentary nominee in BP before the decade is up.

Before we wrap up, I just want to laud the teams behind all of these films.  They are all devastatingly great achievements without a bad film in the bunch.  My personal pick would be for No Other Land to walk away with the award, but I do agree with you that Porcelain War's chances are only growing as Ukraine bumps Palestine out of the day-to-day news cycle.  That being said, I do appreciate Soundtrack being the only nominee where they don't put themselves in the film.  It's exceedingly rare these days, but it doesn't diminish the effort.

What is your personal pick, and do you have any "put yourself in the doc" thoughts?

CLÁUDIO: While these conceptions of "put yourself in the doc" projects are very old indeed, it does seem like we've seen an uptick in their presence lately. Or it's just that these are the kinds of non-fiction work getting awards' attention nowadays, giving us a false perspective of the industry. An imperfect synecdoche, if you will. Looking at the best documentaries I saw in 2024, I can point to multiple masterpieces that don't follow that model. Serra's Afternoons of Solitude, Diop's Dahomey, and Wang's Youth films, for example. 

• BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS, with Cláudio Alves & Nathaniel Rogers
• BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR, with Eric Blume & Nick Taylor
• BEST ORIGINAL SCREENPLAY, with Abe Friedtanzer & Eurocheese
• BEST ANIMATED FEATURE, with Cláudio Alves & Nathaniel Rogers
• BEST INTERNATIONAL FILM, with Eric Blume & Nathaniel Rogers
• BEST COSTUME DESIGN, with Cláudio Alves & Nick Taylor
• BEST MAKEUP & HAIRSTYLING, with Cláudio Alves & Eurocheese