Q&A: Artists in Movies and Uninspiring Best Pic Lineups
Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 10:30PM For this weeks Q&A I asked for an art theme to celebrate the joint birthday of Vincent Van Gogh and Francisco de Goya on this very day! So we'll start with a few art-focused topics before venturing to rando questions.
TOM: Which film about an artist (in any field of the Arts) that you were not particularly knowledgeable about made you want to see/hear the real work by that artist?
I vastly prefer non-traditional biopics so I'm susceptible to stuff that piques curiosity rather than gives you a greatest hits. So I like bios like Thirty Two Short Films About Glenn Gould (1993). I have some problems with I'm Not There (2007) which is my least favorite Todd Haynes film but I respect the hell out of it conceptually. In terms of movies about painters I definitely became more interested in Francis Bacon after Love is the Devil (1998) and not just because of Daniel Craig in the bathtub! I already cared about Caravaggio before seeing Derek Jarman's Caravaggio but I hope people see that one, too.
BRIAN: If you had to recommend a budding Cinephile a movie based on an artist, a work of art, or has artistic themes what would it be?
Hmmm. A lot of movies about painting aren't very good (Watching someone paint being only a notch more interesting than watching someone write). So let's do "artistic" theme and the answer there is easily Amadeus (1984). It's such a useful movie to reference in ways both commonplace ("too many notes!") and contemplative (what makes the difference between competent journeyman skill and true genius?). One of my other favorite "art" movies is High Art (1998)...
8 more questions after the jump
But my interest in that one is mostly due to the interpersonal complexities and Oscar worthy acting within its riangular affair (Radha Mitchell, Ally Sheedy and Patricia Clarkson)
JONO: Contemporary female artists in need of a biopic?
The important thing to note straightaway is that Hollywood has a very limited perception on what biopics can be. You don't need to necessarily have lived a super dramatic life as long as thematically your life's work can be interesting and the biopic is very focused. I wish, for instance, that Frida (2002) was more focused on one time frame because it's got several strong elements but as a whole movie it doesn't really add up to much.
The right director could make a great Cindy Sherman feature but it would have to be prismatic and identity-politics based like an I'm Not There puzzle. There's Ana Mendieta whose earth-body performances would look great onscreen. She lead an interesting life from a prominent Cuban family to an immigrant to the US and then a mysterious high rise fall to her death which some attribute to suicide, others to a quarrel with her new husband. I think Jenny Saville's obese female nudes, her willingness to pose herself, and her fascination wtih plastic surgery could all make for something interesting and provocativelly charged and feminist for the big screen. I think Tracey Emin is controversial enough in the "but is it art or narcissistic provocation?" kind of way that someone could wring a decent movie out of her rise from "Everyone I Eve Slept With" to "My Bed"
Obviously Yoko Ono but only as long as the film understands her as a lead and doesn't become just another Beatles picture. Diane Arbus is fascinating enough that there's every reason to give her a real biopic rather than a fictional one (Fur). And I remain sad that Michelle Pfeiffer never adamantly pursued her desire to do a Georgia O'Keeffe bio.
CRAVER: Shamefully I have never seen any movie from Japan's golden age. I intend to begin with Kurosawa. Which of his movies do you think I should watch first?
I am not the greatest fan of Rashômon (1950) I have to admit BUT I do think it is absolutely essential viewing since it is referenced so often and has proven so influential to narrative filmmaking. But after you've watched that join us for Throne of Blood (1957) since we're doing it for Hit Me With Your Best Shot!
KEISHA: Who are your favorite Best Actor and Actress winning pairs, either based on merit or for superficial reasons (As I was thinking about this, I realized that had Judy Garland won in 1954, she and daughter Liza Minnelli would have both won Best Actress when Marlon Brando won Best Actor.)
Whoa! That Liza/Judy what if blows my mind. So having established that we're talking "sets" by year rather than co-stars, I must confess that I'm almost never okay with both of the winners in a given year so my favorite pairs are for other reasons entirely. I love those moments when a pair who wins one year happens to co-star the next like 53/54 Audrey Hepburn & William Holden (Roman Holiday/Stalag 17 to Sabrina). My favorite same film winners are Colbert/Gable in 1934's It Happened One Night, easily one of the greatest romantic comedies ever made. And I really enjoy Kathy Bates / Jeremy Irons in 1990 (Misery/Reversal of Fortune) for its atypical nature; that's the only time (I think) when both winners were villains. And the 1995 wins to Susan Sarandon / Nicolas Cage (Dead Man Walking/Leaving Las Vegas) have always been a curious pleasure because it's the only time in Oscar history where I would have awarded the exact same two films both leading prizes... only in reverse. I was Team Sean Penn/Elisabeth Shue that year.
DAVID: Have you ever seen the 1993 noir film Romeo is Bleeding? I think Lena Olin is deliciously over-the-top in it as the Russian hitwoman tormenting dirty cop Gary Oldman. Are you a fan of Lena Olin?
I can't quite say "Fan" but I do remember her begin great/insane in that movie. She's the only thing I remember about it (I think I hated the movie?) and she's also pretty damn good in some other movies (Unbearable Lightness of Being / Enemies: A Love Story / The Reader).
It's weird that her career never exploded given how consistently vivid she was for a few years. Let's blame her husband Lasse Halström because it's fun to blame him for things. Let's be honest: Chocolat is THE. WORST.
RYAN: Have you ever had a year where you didn't care for any of the Best Picture nominees?
Hmmm. We have to travel back to the days of 5 nominees only. I'm trying to think of a year where none of the Best Pictures made even my top ten list. Generally speaking one of the nominees at least works like gangbusters for me (like Milk in 2008... otherwise that Picture liszzzzz). I think my answer is 1989. Driving Miss Daisy, Born on the 4th of July, Dead Poets Society, Field of Dreams, My Left Foot. That list does nothing for me. 1970 as honorable (dishonorable?) mention: Patton, Airport, Five Easy Pieces, Love Story, M*A*S*H. It's fine, especially the Altman, but none of them are "favorites" per se that I want to return to.
SONJA: What was the very first movie made you REALLY love movies? (thinking back it was The Little Mermaid and Edward Scissorhands for me)
Oooh those movies definitely rekindled mine. It hurts my heart that I can't remember the first movie I ever saw but my mom claims I was always obsessive about them. This will date me but you all know I'm in my 40s (ugh) so whatever. My first vivid movie-related memory is my family driving past Livonia Mall (the movie theater I went to the most as a kid) and seeing a worker removing the tiles spelling Return from Witch Mountain (1978) from the marquee. I was heart broken because nobody knew that the VCR would soon rescue movie fans from never seeing movies again that they loved. But the movie I cite as the one that changed me was The Purple Rose of Cairo (1985) because I suddenly understood that the size of my love for movies was not "normal". I was a Cecile and most people aren't. Their loss, obvs!
JONNY: Given that we've seen a huge revival in film musicals since the turn of the century, including a couple of Sondheim adaptations recently, what do you think of a movie adaptation of Sunday in the Park with George? Do you think that the bifurcated time period structure could work on film?
Sondheim's musicals are so perfect as stage works that it's always difficult to imagine them working correctly onscreen without a genius director (which musicals never get for some reason). Sunday in the Park with Georgeis heaven but I'm not sure it would work onscreen unless you abbreviated the second act. And made it more like an epilogue or a third act after a fairly faithful adaptation of the first act.
Mr W: You can pick one play by Shakespeare that deserves yet another adaptation for the big screen, and you can choose the director and the cast
NOoooooooooo! Moratorium on Shakespeare for 10 years in theater and film. The whole would would benefit from the renewed experimentation of artists all over the world. There are so many other playwrights worth adapting. I mean imagine if for the next ten years we could get even ONE cinematic adaptation each from a handful of other writers instead of the next 12 Shakespeares we're likely to get. Imagine a riff here on there on classics from Williams, Chekhov, Shepard, Kushner, Albee, Brecht, Stoppard, or, well, ANYONE else? It'd be so exciting!
Reader Comments (29)
Even if they made Yoko Ono the lead in her own biopic, I shudder to think which white actress they'd get to play her and how they'd "make" her Asian.
Thanks for the recommendations.
I agree completely on no more Shakespeare for a while. Don't get me wrong I love Shakespeare and I have enjoyed some of the film adaptions(and hated a couple too), but there are so many wonderful playwrights that deserve some attention. I would love an adaption of Tony Kushner's A Bright Room Called Day personally. My only worrys with adaptions of plays is how they will be directed and how well they get translated from stage to screen. The adaptions that work can be amazing, while the others feel like a shell of what the play was.
Nat, you do notice that of all the playwrights you mentioned, none of them are from anywhere near Shakespeare's era, so if you're so hellbent against another Shakeseare adaptation for 10 years, what other playwrights from that era would you like to see done on stage or screen (Christopher Marlowe, Ben Jonson, etc.)? It feels like a cheat to call for a moratorium on Shakespeare and then only suggst contemporary playwrights, a few of which are still alive and even writing screenplays...
I would still love a musical adaptation of a Shakespeare play written by Joss Whedon. Let fellow Wesleyan graduate Lin-Manuel Miranda co-write it even. I would die quite happy I think.
Nat, you've repeated your first question/answer after the second question/answer!
The first movie I *remember* going to see was DICK TRACY because, apparently, my mum knew of my burgeoning Madonna obsession (yes, even at that early age). Although it's easy to forget that film was aimed at younger audiences despite the violence and the '30s era setting that I doubt I or many other youngsters understood at the time.
I'd really like to recommend Paul Cox's VINCENT. It uses Van Gogh's letters as narration of images of paintings and visits to the locations of where they were painted. It's beautiful and calming and divine.
I was shocked looking through the Best Actor and Best Actress winners each of year how much I too always had issues with one of the winners.
If I had to pick some of the best in addition to some you've mentioned:
Marion Cotillard and Daniel Day-Lewis (easily my favorite of paired Best Actor/Best Actress performances, though I know you weren't big on Cotillard in La Vie en Rose)
Jane Fonda and Gene Hackman
Anthony Hopkins and Jodie Foster
If we don't consider the actual performances they won for, there have been tons of incredible winning pairs.
Thank you for the suggestion, Nat. I'd try to get my hand on a copy of Rashomon and Throne of Blood, hopefully soon.
It always warms my heart to know that Mandy Patinkin has such an amazing singing voice. I'd literally die if he suddenly has a musical number on Homeland. lol
Jeremy Irons is bizarrely underrated, but my favorite pair is of course Hopkins and Foster from Silence of The Lambs, with Network's Finch and Dunaway as runner up.
I love Elisabeth Shue in Leaving Las Vegas, but I still find it strange that even Meryl Streep fans don't seem to recognize her best performance ever, in The Bridges of Madison County.
These were a really good set of questions (and answers!)
Lena Olin!
P.S. I am not the greatest fan of Rashômon either
Emma Stone as Yoko Ono, obviously.
When Blanchett and McConaughey won their Lead Oscars. I remember discussion here was about them sharing a birth year and being the same age at the time of their wins. The same can be said for Bates and Irons.
Elisabeth Shue was EVERYTHING in Leaving Las Vegas... roles like that come along once in a lifetime. Glad she was able to shine so bright before sinking to crap like CSI on television.
Elisabeth Shue is perfect in Leaving Las Vegas except for one scene (her Oscar clip).
Peggy Sue -- i don't even remember which clip they used.
Mike in Canada: That casting in Aloha will never not be stupid.
As for uninspiring Best Picture lineups how about:
1955: Marty, Mister Roberts, Picnic, The Rose Tattoo, Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing. Zzzzz
1963: Tom Jones is passable, Cleopatra (especially the first half) is underrated, but Lilies of the Field, How the West Was Won and America, America are pretty useless
1978: By being a forgettable mediocrities, Heaven Can Wait and An Unmarried Woman are already heaps better than pretentious garbage like Coming Home, Midnight Express and The Deer Hunter -- the most undeserving Best Picture winner of all time
and (fanfare please)
2014!!!: Grand Budapest Hotel, Selma and Theory of Everything aren't totally without merit, but Boyhood, Birdman, The Imitation Game and American Sniper are grossly overrated, and Whiplash is downright vile
This year my 7th choice was The Revenant. I would have ranked it #1 or #2 in 2014
Nathaniel & Peggy Sue-
It was the clip where she was eating noodles or something with a chopstick, and she was begging him to stop drinking... Then she throws the chopsticks down in the bowl frustrated "I've given you gallons of free will here Ben, you can DO THIS ONE THING FOR ME" lol
Ken S -- i considered 55 for that answer but i have some affection for rose tattoo and a little bit for Picnic however dated.
i like 2014 boyhood & birdman were amazing and grand budapest & selma also strong.
Thanks for answering my question, Nat! 8)
I've seen The Purple Rose of Cairo a few years ago and immediately loved it. Might be my favorite Woody Allen film.
TBH I personally rank Bridges of Madison County as #5 of Meryl's best performances of all time.
Nothing tops Sophie's Choice and I really think Miranda Priestly is her second best performance ever. (3-Adaptatio., 4-A Cry in the Dark)
That she won absolutely NOTHING for Bridges is a crying shame though....
But I really love the 1995 line up. Any of them would have made a deserving winner imo.
Kathy Bates is one of my most favorite Best Actress wins ever, but I was not so impressed with Irons...
2007 might be the best winning pair overall, but as someone with bad taste, I really like the 2011 pair as well. Sorry Nat... (and everyone else)
The first movie I ever remember seeing in the theater was The Black Cauldron. I remember being confused by it. I saw it once more as an adult and I was still confused by it, so I guess some things don't change between ages 5 and 30!
BTW I'm quite happy I didn't see The Wizzard of Oz as a child. Would have crept the hell out of me....
Lena Olin is amazing. Wish she worked more.It's hard to blame Lasse Hailstorm for Chocolat when he also gave me What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
Thanks for answering my question! Aside from the couple that I mentioned in my question, another random pair I like is Spencer Tracy and Bette Davis in 1938 because they have the same birthday (which they share with Gregory Peck). I also like Ray Milland and Joan Crawford in 1945 as they won for noir roles. The Denzel Washington and Halle Berry pairing in 2001 is great too, though neither were my favorites in their categories.
But yeah I'm with you, it's rare that my favorite male and female performance of the year (of the ones nominated) goes on to win, so it's tough picking a favorite pair based on merit alone.
Five Easy Pieces is one of the Greatest. Films. Ever. Made.
That is all.
"Which film about an artist (in any field of the Arts) that you were not particularly knowledgeable about made you want to see/hear the real work by that artist? "
Thirty-Two Short Films About Glenn Gould is as good an answer as any.
"If you had to recommend a budding Cinephile a movie based on an artist, a work of art, or has artistic themes what would it be?"
La Belle Noiseuse
"Shamefully I have never seen any movie from Japan's golden age. I intend to begin with Kurosawa. Which of his movies do you think I should watch first?"
Ikiru or High and Low
Best Oscar Winning Pair: Hmmm.. Fredric March and Olivia de Havilland (1946), Alec Guinness and Joanne Woodward (1957), Gregory Peck and Anne Bancroft (1962), Sissy Spacek and Robert de Niro (1980), Jodie Foster and Anthony Hopkins (1991), Adrien Brody and Nicole Kidman (2002)
Lena Olin: She was awesome on Alias too!
Best Picture wise: No 2006 nominee made my top twenty. 1988 is also rather shitty. 1956 is awful.
Three Ninjas was my gateway drug.
On some days, I view Sunday in the Park With George as the greatest musical of all time. I hope it could work on film, but it would take a pretty perfect director.
I think Follies and Assassins should be the nest Sondheim stage-to-screen adaptations.
Shakespeare: Gotta say, not being in New York or London I don't get to feel that the world's greatest dramatist is overdone. But instead of Shakespeare, let's comment on Nathaniel's mentioned dramatists
Tennessee Williams: Maybe Not About Nightingales.
Chekhov: Gotta be The Seagull
Shepard: You know, I really (really) don't care for Sam Shepherd, so I'll pass on this one
Kushner: Hmmm... Homebody/Kabul would be fascinating
Albee: Nope. Awesome playwright, but outside of Virginia Woolf, a little too stagebound. Wouldn't scoff at The Goat, though
Brecht: Not on screen.
Stoppard: Oh, so many choices. Arcadia is the obvious one, but Rock N Roll or The Invention of Love ("I would have died for you but never had the luck!") would be beautiful
Re: Brian's question, Cinema Paradiso was the movie that knocked me into pure cinephilia and I think it has some things to say about how life impacts art and vice versa. However, Amadeus was right behind it. You're right that it's an art-lover's dream, stylized, melodramatic, and in its antihero Salieri, instantly relatable.
My Fav Best Actor/Actress winning pair: Winslet (The Reader)/ Penn (Milk) in 2008. Alws wonder why Winslet get so many hates for winning. At least not cat fraud in this one.
Oh I luv Purple Rose o Cairo! Mia Farrow shld've been nom for that! Its sad tt she was never nom for an Oscar, even after being Woody's leading lady for so many good pix
Shue is the best thing in Leaving Las Vegas...I'm alws puzzled why Cage is the one winning all the acclaims, when Shue is the ANCHOR of the whole pic!
David - Exactly! She's totally off in that particular scene
I absolutely love Kurosawa and am happy you're doing Throne of Blood. I would recommend Ran, which is just visually incredible. Both of those are based on Shakespeare though so...
I want to say I would love for them to move on to everyone doing a riff on Albee or Brecht. Wouldn't that be something? Brecht would be extra salient for the economic trouble. I love bringing Shakespeare into different times and with different angles, but that could work for so many playwrights.