Smackdown '65: Nuns, child abusers, and tragic pawns
Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 12:30PM The Supporting Actress Smackdown series picks an Oscar vintage and explores...
THE NOMINEES 1965 was all about the Julies, Christie and Andrews, headlining the years biggest hits but both were located in the lead actress category. When some of the year's most lauded supporting actress turned up in films Oscar wasn't interested in they selected quite an odd list from which films they were looking at, still missing one very obvious great choice. Recent Oscar winner Shelley Winters (A Patch of Blue) and recent nominee Joyce Redman (Othello) were invited back and future Dame and Oscar darling Maggie Smith (Othello) was invited for the first time. TV regular Peggy Wood (The Sound of Music) and a longtime Hollywood screenwriter Ruth Gordon (Inside Daisy Clover), nabbing her first nomination in an acting category, were also chosen. The resulting shortlist of characters included a nun, a child abuser, two women doomed by hateful petty men, and an eccentric old Californian who wasn't quite in touch with reality... not unlike some Oscar voters!
THE PANEL Here to talk about the performances and films are, in alpha order, Oscar buff Baby Clyde (The Film Experience), freelance writer Kayleigh Donaldson (Pajiba, What to Watch, SyFy FanGrrls), character actor Spencer Garrett (Bombshell, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood), writer and podcaster Kevin Jacobsen (And the Runner Up Is...), writer, cosplayer, and director Terence Johnson (Le Noir Auteur, Vampyr Resistance Corps). And your host at The Film Experience, of course, Nathaniel R. Let's begin...
1965
SUPPORTING ACTRESS SMACKDOWN + PODCAST
The companion podcast can be downloaded at the bottom of this article or by visiting the iTunes page...
Ruth Gordon as "The Dealer - Mrs Clover" in Inside Daisy Clover
Synopsis: An not-all-there woman is placed in a mental institution to cover up her movie star daughter's past.
Stats: Then 69 yrs old, 6th film, 5th billed. Her fourth nomination (but first in an acting category). 11 minutes of screen time (or 9% of the running time)
Baby Clyde: Better known for her writing at this point it’s great to this well respected veteran getting some late in life career love. Unfortunately whilst she’s a delight on screen she’s not given much to do which is a shame as her character is far more interesting than that of her daughter. Nevermind, as we all know this was just the beginning of her resurgence and the best was yet to come. ♥♥♥
Kayleigh Donaldson: An undisputed legend and an endlessly striking on-screen presence, this nomination can’t help but feel more like a welcome back for Gordon than an appreciation of the work she does in the film. Inside Daisy Clover suffers from its hesitation over its own tone and intent and Gordon’s character is heavily indicative of that. She does what she can with a part that feels like a leftover from a much more giddily camp version of this, but there’s still real steel in her eyes, even as The Dealer seems ever more distant from her daughter’s reality. Fortunately, Rosemary’s Baby was just around the corner. ♥♥
Spencer Garrett: She's doing the Ruth Gordon thing. She's quirky, watchable, sweeet and off. She's always terrific to watch. She's the best thing about the entire film for me, which I otherwise had a lot of problems with. ♥♥♥
Kevin Jacobsen: Gordon made a successful Hollywood career out of playing these types of eccentric women of a certain age and she has a quirky charm that enlivens a dour, bizarro “Star Is Born” story filled with tonal inconsistencies. Maybe she’s a bit too old to play the mother of a teenager — though Natalie Wood is even more miscast as a teen — but she has a certain vitality that make her fun to watch in the first act. This dissipates after her character is committed to an institution and she is relegated to mostly reactive shots, but there is a haunted quality to her solemn glances that has stayed with me since watching. With only about 10 minutes of screen time in a 2+ hour film, most of which is at the very beginning, her performance could be forgotten in lesser hands but her energy is so compelling that it works for me. At least she has a sense of what kind of movie she’s in ♥♥♥♥
Terence Johnson: Ruth Gordon helped brighten the proceedings in the early going of Inside Daisy Clover and I’m still laughing at her reading of the line ”I only started to miss him this year.” However once the character's sent away to a care home, the movie isn't interested in giving her anything worthwhile to do. ♥
Nathaniel R: It's hard not to love Ruth Gordon. It must be the inimitable voice, endearing and aggravating in equal measure. It's admirable too the way she tricks you into loving her while also keying you into the fact that she's actually disturbed (she is not so good at mothering, you must admit, letting her daughter run wild for years and setting her own house on fire and the like). Her shift into a more catatonic mood is effective though disheartening as she recedes. Still, this is mere warm up for Rosemary's Baby in which all of her confidence and peculiarities as an actor are in full perfect service to an unforgettable character who deserves her. ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Really liked her for the first 25 minutes before she was inexplicably lobotomized and returned as a shell. This movie was a slog without her!" - Troy (Reader average: ♥♥½)
Actress earns 17½ ❤s
Joyce Redman as "Emilia" in Othello
Synopsis: A ladies maid, married to a deceitful ensign, unwittingly aids him in his treachery before he murders her.
Stats: Then 50 yrs old, 4th film, 3rd billed. Her second (and final) nomination. 29 minutes of screentime (or 17% of the running time)
Baby Clyde: The only bright spark in and otherwise interminably dreary production. Whilst everyone else is hamming it up and playing to the back of the theatre she’s the only actor who makes the scenes feel real and alive. Her last 20 minutes totally steal the show if you can manage to make it that far in. ♥♥♥♥
Kayleigh Donaldson: In the play, the role of Emilia is considered pretty minor. She is intended to provide a more cynical contrast to Desdemona, particularly on matters of men and romance. Still, Redman more than holds her own against the likes of Smith, even with less to do. She's suitably passionate and cynical with Iago and just withering enough (something we typically expect from Smith in her most iconic roles.) ♥♥♥
Spencer Garrett: It was fun to revisit Joyce Redman’s performance. I kept coming back to it. Of the Othello cast, she feels the most real and naturalistic. She blows me away with her simplicity. This is my favourite of the five performances we watched. ♥♥♥♥
Kevin Jacobsen: Redman is one of the more accessible elements of Othello, bringing a natural energy to Emilia. It is difficult to stand out in a stagy 165-minute film that features Laurence Olivier showboating in blackface and Frank Finlay’s plate-spinning manipulations as Iago, but Redman brings complexity to a devoted character who still has her own wants and needs. Her biggest showcase is in the film’s climactic final sequence as her horror at discovering the true extent of her husband’s villainy allows her to finally let loose. There isn’t much for her to work with before the ending, but she does what she can to modulate her performance in a way that makes her big explosion satisfying. ♥♥♥
Terence Johnson: Redman has to have the toughest job of any actor in Othello in that she gets her first significant moments about an hour in. I didn’t remember Emilia being such a capable character but Redman really is a force in this movie, brilliantly showing us the type of formidable woman who would marry a man like Iago (that scarf scene!), and then as the movie moves towards its tragic end, lets us into the character’s true heart. It did ramp up to a very loud performance but I appreciated her matching the energy of Olivier and Finlay. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: All throughout Othello, I kept begging for the (male) actors to stop shouting. 'You're on camera now -- you don't have to play to the back row.' The success of Redman's good if not quite nomination-ready performance, is in its barely visible simmer until you realize she's about to boil over; she, at least, fully earns her time with the megaphone. Bonus points: Condragulations on that unexpected (literal) death drop! ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "A clear point of view that informs all of her scenes. Emilia is a schemer, and she loves what she does. Redman's Emilia lives for the drama, but knows where to draw the line. She's a Queen after our own heart." - Christopher (Reader average: ♥♥½)
Actress earns 23½ ❤s
Maggie Smith as "Desdemona" in Othello
Synopsis: The adoring naive wife of a Moorish general is falsely accused of adultery, setting off a murderous rage in her husband.
Stats: Then 31 yrs old, 6th film, 2nd billed. First nomination (of an eventual six). 56 minutes of screen time (or 34% of the running time).
Baby Clyde: Feels weird ranking legendary scene stealer Maggie Smith last, but this is such a thankless role even she can’t make an impression. She does deserve some credit for not laughing at Olivier’s ridiculous theatrics. ♥♥
Kayleigh Donaldson: Given how much Smith is nowadays defined for her grand dames and caustic wit, from Jean Brodie to Downtown Abbey, it's fascinating to see her play someone so tender and motivated by empathy. All that plummy stage acting pays off. She's so spirited and easy to love as Desdemona, and she brings real passion to her marriage with Othello. It's a performance I have to give even more credit, if only for the fact that she remains so gripping and believable even as Olivier descends into minstrelsy that's unbearable to sit through for 140 minutes. ♥♥♥♥
Spencer Garrett: There's no bigger Maggie Smith fan on the planet, than me. She’s so simple and sublte and at the same time you're aware that she knows she's in a movie. I loved all of the Othello performances. ♥♥♥♥
Kevin Jacobsen: Smith has a lovely innocence in “Othello” that suits Desdemona. While she has decidedly more screen time than her competitors here, she still feels like a supporting player and merely a pawn in Iago’s schemes. Smith plays her part well within that framework, especially towards the end of the film when she feels truly helpless to fix her situation and you see the desperation in her eyes. Her weary lament heading into the final act is evocative in a film that doesn’t exactly inspire much emotion elsewhere. Outside of that, I don’t know if she truly elevates the role beyond what’s on the page. ♥♥♥
Terence Johnson: Maggie deserves a lot of credit here for tapping into the steadfastness of Desdemona’s love for Othello. From the moment she enters, she sells us on D’s love and kind nature, and the rightful despondency at Othello’s accusations. But I think her being Maggie Smith is what made this more watchable than anything she did performance wise. In a movie where everyone seems to be in the rafters, Smith has her feet on the ground. ♥♥
Nathaniel R: This acting legend's first nomination was unfortunately for a movie that's best forgotten. But if there had been a saving grace to 1965's Othello (1965) -- alas, there's not -- Smith's performance as the doomed loving wife would be the contender for that dubious honor. It takes her too long to make a mark but she's inarguably riveting in her final few scenes when Othello's blood runs cold and she flails and fails to make sense of it. Watching her shrink inwardly, blaming herself despite her own innocence, you get a sense of how great the turn could have been within a better movie and with a more responsive scene partner. ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Somehow she sells her affection for Olivier’s truly horrendous version of Othello" - Greg (Reader average: ♥♥¾)
Actress earns 20¾ ❤s
Shelley Winters as "Rose-Ann D'Arcey" in A Patch of Blue
Synopsis: A trashy abusive mother woman is threatened by the arrival of a kind man in her blind daughter's life.
Stats: Then 45 yrs old, 43rd (credited) film, 2nd billed. Third nomination (of an eventual four). She had won on her previous nomination. 16 minutes of screentime (or 15% of the running time.)
Baby Clyde: The easy winner from this bunch. You expect a film of this is from 1965 to somewhat pull it’s punches but A Patch of Blue surprises at every turn. Prostitution, alcoholism, rape , squalor and abuse are all confronted head and Shelley is right there in the middle relishing every opportunity to make her character as unlikeable as possible. You’re waiting for some kind of redemption arc. Many actresses would have insisted on one but that wouldn’t have rung true. This is Shelley Winters at her best. She often has a tendency to go too broad or become whiny but here she gets it just right and has a well deserved Oscar to prove it. ♥♥♥♥♥
Kayleigh Donaldson: Winters’ performance is brash and loud and very much in the same vein as the classic “funny Hollywood bigot” supporting character that the Oscars have a soft spot for. It’s also an example of the “monster mother” (see Allison Janney in I, Tonya; Meryl Streep in August: Osage County.) This is something that Winters could do in her sleep. I was reminded of Lolita in that aspect. That’s not to say she isn’t giving it her all. There’s a real malice edge and truly pathetic quality to her performance. Winters was famously devoid of vanity and it works to great effect here. When she starts to lose control over Selina, we see that ferocity in full effect. The way she lashes out at Poitier in their only scene together is truly scary and feels way too prescient given how many cases we’ve seen white women pulling this shit in public with black men. I don’t think it’s as layered a performance as the one she gives in Lolita but it’s the kind of scrappy, watchable work that you eagerly seek out from figures like Winters. ♥♥♥
Spencer Garrett: It's a powerful performance but I kept waiting for a way in to find something to love about her — some small spark of humanity. That lack of any empathy and hammering that one note was a turn off for me. ♥♥
Kevin Jacobsen: A sheer force of nature. Winters tears into her part as the monstrous mother from hell, Rose-Ann, a character she admittedly hated just as much as the audience. From the very beginning she commands the screen as she physically and verbally abuses her blind daughter, Selina, allowing us little to no sympathy. One could argue she is a one-dimensional villain as written, but Winters very subtly hints at the tiny piece of humanity left underneath her vicious exterior, suggesting insecurities about her age, a troubled relationship with her father, and a general bitterness toward the world. Many of her scenes with Elizabeth Hartman’s Selina are deeply uncomfortable to watch but there is a sly amusement to her, like she’s enjoying how much she can get under people’s skin, that perversely draws you in. This is what Best Supporting Actress is all about, leaving an indelible mark on a film and enhancing your emotional investment in the lead’s journey. ♥♥♥♥♥
Terence Johnson: Throughout this film, I couldn’t help but thinking what a fascinating double feature this would make with Precious, given the character Shelley Winters plays. However, unlike the monster mother in that film, there doesn’t seem to be much modulation in Winters’ performance. She nails the loud parts and is very committed to being incredibly unlikable, but there’s something missing here for me. I loved the brief moment where you see the thin familial bonds Rose-Ann still has and it’s a credit to Winters’ skill that you become intensely hopeful things will be better, only to see those dreams dashed just as quickly. However, that was the only real highlight for me outside of her character getting her comeuppance. ♥♥
Nathaniel R: "Shelley's going hard," I said to my friend during her very first scene, wondering inwardly where she could possibly take this performance from that hatefully trashy introduction. She finds a way, not by softening her but by burrowing in even deeper to the twisted psychology of a soulless child abuser, filled with petty grievances. I was especially fond of one of her quiet scenes when she realizes her daughter is getting happier, and you can see a wicked smirk on her face before she maneuvers to stamp it out. This rich and dementedly charismatic star turn belongs in the (crowded) hall of fame of the monster moms of cinema. ♥♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "The script has Rose Ann do shocking things, but Winters finds specific things in her performance to make Rose Ann seem real. Winters portrays a woman who hates her family, but hates the world more. It is everyone vs her." - Tom (Reader average: ♥♥♥¼)
Actress earns 25¼ ❤s
Peggy Wood as "Mother Abbess" in The Sound of Music
Synopsis: A Mother Superior wonders how she can solve a problem like Maria, her novitiate who is clearly not an assett to the abbey!
Stats: Then 73 yrs old, 13th (and final) film, 4th billed ("with" Peggy Wood). First (and final) nomination. 16 minutes of screentime (or 9% of the running time.)
Baby Clyde: As the Mother Abbess Peggy Wood is fine, but the great, overdue Eleanor Parker was right there doing much better work. I just can’t with The Academy sometimes. ♥♥♥
Kayleigh Donaldson: Even when she's dubbed, Wood has such dignity and poise during the "Climb Ev-ry Mountain" scene. It's an appropriate showstopper. The warmth between her and Andrews is immensely endearing. Wood is perhaps one of the strongest examples of this “stern but loveable guardian” trope in musicals. Still, I can't help but wish that this nomination had gone to Eleanor Parker as Baroness Elsa von Schraeder, a performance and character that I have adored for many years now. ♥♥♥
Spencer Garrett: Peggy Wood was terrific in, well, a couple of moments, but was this a career achievement award? I don't get it. Eleanor Parker was robbed. ♥♥
Kevin Jacobsen: As Mother Abbess, Wood brings a warmth and compassion to an otherwise limited part. Despite brief screen time, the Reverend Mother is an important player at key steps in Maria’s journey and Wood’s lovely maternal presence is a source of comfort both for Maria and for us. Wood’s performance of “Climb Ev’ry Mountain” is a showstopper without being too over the top and thus breaking character. Unfortunately, her singing voice was dubbed but it’s a strong Lip Sync for Your Life nonetheless. She is not given much else to do besides deliver some exposition, but her tearful farewells to the Von Trapps at the end allow her to end on a strong note ♥♥♥
Terence Johnson: Peggy Wood is quite good as Mother Abbess, bringing the sternness and begrudging fondness for Maria. Climb E’vry Mountain is a sterling moment in the movie, but made all the more powerful her character’s sage advice prior to that song. The performance never really rises above the fray, especially when there is a much more interesting supporting performance happening in the same movie. ♥♥
Nathaniel R: There are far too many nominations in Oscar history for paragons of virtue, where the framing and the lighting and the reverence afforded the actor/character do all the work. Consider that in Mother Abbess' big penultimate scene ("Climb Every Mountain") you barely see her, as she's either shrouded in shadow or an unknowably holy figure bathed in light and it's not even Wood singing! The scene is really all about Maria Von Trapp absorbing the melodic sermon. That said, I adored Wood's casually bossy dismissive hand gestures and that she managed to sell the dichotomy of a woman who's both impatient and bemused with the nuns who are always trying her patience. ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Definitely the wrong nominee from the movie, but movie nuns rock. And her breaking out into an operatic "Climb Every Mountain" is camp classic." - Drew (Reader average: ♥♥¼)
Actress earns 17¼ ❤s
Result: On Oscar night both Othello thespians were absent and Shelley Winters prevailed winning her second statue for A Patch of Blue. Though her performance was truly divisive among both our panel and participating readers (she tended to score 1 heart or 5!), she manages to win the Smackdown, too, albeit in a weak field of nominees.
THE FULL PODCAST CONVERSATION
Download at the bottom of this post 👇 or on iTunes to hear the in-depth discussion with our marvelous guests.
NEXT UP: The season finale is on Thursday, November 19th and we'll be discussing the 1987 film year. Please watch or rewatch Fatal Attraction, Throw Momma From the Train, The Whales of August, Gaby: A True Story, and Moonstruck before then. [All Previous Smackdowns]
Reader Comments (38)
Wow some of those low scores surprised me. I wasn't sure who was going to win after all!
Ruth Gordon- Inside Daisy Clover
Gordon seems to have two speeds in this movie: 0 or 150. In the beginning of the film, she is the daffy crazy mom. But she plays it so broadly. How broadly? Gordon isn't playing to the balcony but to the people in the coffee shop across the street. Then at the end, her character becomes catatonic. She is silent and never the focus anymore. She takes up space. 0 or 150. A good middle meeting would have better balanced the performance. 1.5 hearts
Maggie Smith- Othello
What have I watched? I can't undo the woebegotten vanity project. It isn't all Smith's fault. Desdemona is an uninteresting doormat of a character. She also has no chemistry with Olivier but their relationship was rocky. The best thing Smith did happened off screen. At some point during a rehearsal Olivier criticised her pronunciation. The next day she went to his dressing room to help with his god awful blackface makeup. She then said to his face with perfect diction "How now, brown cow?" Smith wasn't a pushover. Too bad she couldn't give Desdemona more of a backbone. 2 hearts
Joyce Redman- Othello
Redman fares far better than Smith. First, Emilia has agency. She wants to do things while Desdemona is just a damsel in distress. Redman also shares most of her scenes with Frank Finlay, who plays Iago and isn't having any of Olivier's dramatics and just wants to give a competent performance. Redman acquits herself well in the movie. It's a good performance but this whole enterprise is so bad there is only so much she can do. 3 hearts
Peggy Wood- The Sound of Music
That tinkle in her eye serves Wood well in this performance. You get the sense that Mother Superior wasn't always old but was young and probably defied some rules and perhaps has more in common with Maria than the other nuns. Perhaps she also had a crisis of faith but chose the choice Maria didn't take. Mother Superior is kind and patient with Maria not just because she is kind but Wood conveys a sense of kindred spirits. 4 hearts
Shelley Winters- A Patch of Blue
Hollywood has created many monsters and many monster mothers. But the scariest monsters are the ones that have a sense of truth, that these creations could exist, be your neighbors. Winters creates a scary monster mother by keeping her honest and real. Winters is Rose Ann, the abusive parent to Selena, a blind girl. The script has Rose Ann do shocking things, but Winters finds specific things in her performance to make Rose Ann seem real. Winters portrays a woman who hates her family, but hates the world more. It is everyone vs her and her immediate circle. Also, when Selena rebels and physically shoves her mother away from her, Winters doesn't register rage but surprise at first. She never suspected that her daughter would do this. I remember this moment more than any other moment in the movie. 5 hearts
Side note: I saw Othelli onstage at the St Louis Black Rep and Monica Parks played Emilia and gave the best performance I have ever seen a woman give on stage. If anybody here has casting choices or pull, look her up!
Was really surprised by the high rankings for Winters, it's one of my all time least favorite wins. Just freakishly broad and cartoonish and off putting in the worst ways.
This is a weak roster, I supposed either of the Otello ladies would be my pick but good lord I don't want to give that movie anything!
Why Parker and Blondell were slighted for THESE women will always mystify me.
_My own Line up of Best Actress in Supporting Role 1965:
1- Shelley Winters - A Patch of Blue
2- Charmian Carr - The Sound of Music
3- Eleanor Parker - The Sound of Music
4- Joyce Redman - Othello
5- Wendy Craig - The Nanny
I consider Maggie Smith leading in Othello.
Peter -- i really find reactions to her fascinating. She got either 1/2 or 4/5 hearts on most ballots... the rare performance where people just dont feel a middle ground.
Not in the least. Even Bianca, an actual minor role, is pivotal. Emilia is LARGE.
Winters gets my vote, and she (close to Gordon on the irritating scale) has never been one of my favorite actresses.
harmodio -- i think my lineup would be
WINTERS -patch of blue
CHAPLIN -doctor zhivago
PARKER - the sound of music
VERNON - umbrellas of cherbourgh
FURNEAUX -repulsion
But i'm very weak on 1965. I wish i'd had time to watch more movies.i still have never seen THE SPY WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD or SHIP OF FOOLS
I think Peggy Wood’s nomination had more to do with the audience reaction back in ‘65. Each time I saw The Sound of Music during its initial release the audience perked up during Climb Every Mountain and applauded vigorously after the song ended. On a big screen in a crowded theater, the moment was magical.
When I watch The Sound of Music now, that moment that unified us as an audience seems lost. The world was quite dark and troubled then. The tenderness, the authority, the benevolence of the Mother was a balm to wounds we felt but couldn’t see.
This might be my least favourite list of nominees from the years chosen for this years summer smackdown (87 included.)
Shelley wins for me however it's mainly based on being the best of a subpar field. Of films that received nominations I wish space could've been made for Anne Vernon in Umbrellas of Cherbourg who is truly spectacular playing the young lovers mother.
I'm glad I'll not have to watch these films (SOM aside) again because it was a truly terrible experience.
Oh my God. How I could have forgotten Geraldine Chaplin in Doctor Zhivago. She is bright and the truth is incredible to think that she was not nominated. At least the Golden Globes nominated her for Best New Actress.
_My own Line up of Best Actress in Supporting Role 1965:
1- Shelley Winters - A Patch of Blue
2- Geraldine Chaplin - Doctor Zhivago
3- Charmian Carr - The Sound of Music
4- Eleanor Parker - The Sound of Music
5- Joyce Redman - Othello
And since we commented on actresses from 1965.
_My own Line up of Best Actress in Supporting Role 1965:
1- Julie Andrews - The Sound of Music
2- Elizabeth Hartman - A Patch of Blue
3- Julie Christie - Doctor Zhivago
4- Catherine Deneuve - Repulsion
5- Maggie Smith - Othello
Was it known at the time that Wood's singing voice was dubbed? If not, I'm sure Climb Ev'ry Mountain sealed the deal for her.
Emilia is the best role in Othello. Not kidding.
I liked Patch of Blue more than I expected. Winters nailed Monster Mom.
It is possible to like both Parker and Wood in The Sound of Music. I hadn't realized that Wood's singing voice was dubbed. That makes me appreciate Wood's performance a little less, unfortunately.
I'm a completist in things like this, so i'm not complaining that we did 1965, just observing when I say: I wanted to put *my* head in an oven for 3 of these movies. Thank Euterpe for Rodgers and Hammerstein.
Ruth Gordon from Inside Daisy Clover - 4 stars. [thx for the shout out above!!] I actually really liked her character for the first 25 min. or so before she was inexplicably lobotomized and left the movie, only returning to be a shell for a few scenes. But before that- I was into the salty Thelma Ritter thing she had going. This movie was a slog without her... yawn! I usually dig Redford, but he really doesn't do the "manic pixie dreamboy" thing well.
Maggie Smith from Othello- 2 stars. I guess it was fun to see her as a pretty young thing putting on Shakespeare? But not at this price!
Joyce Redman from Othello - 1 star. I don't understand how these 2 got Oscar nominations.. Tonys *maybe*? I've heard of "filmed plays" before, but this was ridiculous.
Shelley Winters from A Patch of Blue - 3 stars despite her being in full volume villain mode, it was still a really boring message movie.
Peggy Wood from The Sound of Music - 2 stars. Not bad, but a pretty straightforward role. She wasn't really asked to do a lot besides sigh at Maria's shenanigans and look saintly was she?
Oops.. i forgot to share my faves of 1965 (per imdb):
Compartiment Tuers (The Sleeping Car Murder) - fantastic noir myster by Costa Garvas. All star French cast
Who Killed Teddy Bear- for sexy fave Sal Mineo
Darling
Fists in the Pockets
Honorable Mentions:
Repulsion
The Collector
Faster Pussy Cat! Kill! Kill!
Bunny Lake is Missing
The Sound of Music
Le Bonheur
The 10th Victim
Nightmare Castle
Sorry... LAST PS:
Umbrellas of Cherbourg of course would have made my fave list.. just seeing it in others. imdb lsits it as 1964 so i missed it when sorting my rankings to make my list above. but UOC is an all-timer for me.
Fuck yes! Love these write-ups, and the range of hearts for basically all these actresses is really something to read. Had no idea who was gonna pull this one out. I wish I’d seen a couple more films from this year - one can fit only so many three-hour epics in a day, but I think my lineup would be:
Blondell, The Cincinnati Kid
Chaplin, Doctor Zhivago
Parker, The Sound of Music
Redman, Othello
Smith, Othello
I love Anne Vernon in Umbrellas, but she feels like a co-lead to me. I like Bloom in Spy and Furneaux in Repulsion, but maybe not enough to nominate them. And whether or not you’d say the Faster, Pussycat! women are giving “good” performances, god damn are they memorable and fun to watch.
As always I LOVE the Smackdown and reading everyone's takes on the performances, even a thin lot such as this. It came out as I expected sadly because I'm one of those who hated Shelley Winters performance in A Patch of Blue.
I love Shelley, even more so for also despising the character just as much as I did, but I don't think she found her way inside the vile Rose-Ann and we are stuck with a constant bray of unceasing misery with no modulation. It's a pity since she could be an actress of enormous depth. Sort of amusing that the two A Place in the Sun women both won one of their Oscars for a character they hated.
My ranking of this uninspiring field:
Ruth Gordon-2 hearts
Joyce Redman-2 hearts
Maggie Smith-3 hearts
Shelley Winters- ½ heart
Peggy Wood- 2 ½ hearts
Which would make Maggie the winner but my heart wouldn't really be in handing her the award. If it were up to me not a single one of these women would get within a mile of a nomination. At least not for the film they competed in, I'd consider Maggie Smith for her work in Young Cassidy but she'd fall into that "just missing it" sixth spot.
My ballot and runner-ups would be:
1. Eleanor Parker-The Sound of Music-Winner--Why, Why, WHY was she missed! She was right there stealing her scenes in the picture right from under Julie Andrews's nose!!!
2. Claire Bloom-The Spy Who Came in from the Cold
3. Vivien Leigh-Ship of Fools-I know she's top billed but Simone Signoret is the rightful female lead. Vivien disappears for large chunks of the film, perhaps because of her health problems during production but whatever the reason Mrs. Treadwell is a well played but secondary character.
4. Anna Karina-Alphaville
5. Joan Blondell-The Cincinnati Kid
Runner-Ups
Maggie Smith-Young Cassidy
Barbara Harris-A Thousand Clowns
Samantha Eggar-Return from the Ashes
joel6 -- thanks for all those recommendations.
This was a fun year to dig into, and a seemingly weak one overall for American film.
I would trade in all supporting actress nominees and replace them with five women from Red Beard.
I went into the smackdown having seen 3 1965 films, and am coming out of it with 48 films under my belt. My top ten for the year:
1. Red Beard
2. Sword of Beast
3. My Home Is Copacabana
4. Alphaville
5. La Bonheur
6. Juliet of the Spirits
7. The Collector
8. Bunny Lake Is Missing
9. The Shop On Main Street
10. The Spy Who Came In From The Cold
If Simone is a Lead with her screen time then so is Vivien Leigh.
I haven't seen many 65 films apart from Dr Zhivago The Sound Of Music and Ship Of Fools.
Weak year, indeed. Why did we vote to do this year...? 😑
Good lord Kelly, where do you find the time? I'm so jealous. i just didn't have much time this month but i'm going to try to squeeze in a lot of 87 for next month -- and of course i'm starting from a wider 'already seen' list since i was actually alive in 87 and going to movies ;)
I enjoyed the Smackdown, as ever! Thanks for all your hard work, Nathaniel and the panel.
I haven't seen Gordon and Winters' performances, but of the other three, I would say:
Joyce Redman: Excellent work - Redman makes Emilia the most compelling character in this production. A searing portrait of loyalty and grief.
Maggie Smith: She conveys the innocence and virtuousness well but she's perhaps just a bit bland - not helped by the proudction overall. (Interesting that she was nominated in the leading category at the Globes. I think I'd have her in support - I think the two men are Othello's only leads.)
Peggy Wood: A warm presence working well as a great mentor for Maria.
Redman would be my winner out of those three.
This could be my line-up:
Luciana Paluzzi, Thunderball
Eleanor Parker, The Sound of Music
Joyce Redman, Othello
Anne Vernon, Les Parapluies de Cherbourg
Peggy Wood, The Sound of Music
Can't wait for 1987 and all those Ann(e)s!
Othello with Maggie Smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESM2LK2Sz68
I am here just to praise Kelly who mentioned Red Beard, a helluva movie - and even more impressive because it was made just after one of the best movies of all time, High and Low.
Nathaniel, I watch a movie every morning when I wake up, and multiple on weekends.
1987 will be interesting since I think we are about the same age so we of course have our nostalgic favorites. Beverly Hills Cop II and Outrageous Fortune are my favorite movies from 87. Hopefully they stand up to the higher brow onslaught headed their way!
Kelly -- wow. well done. My favourite movies from '87 are Moonstruck and Jean de Florette/Manon of the Spring. but i haven't seen the latter double feature since like the early 90s i dont think. Moonstruck i've seen a lot.
Weaker movies might make for a more interesting podcast discussion. Nathaniel, I also have seen Inside Daisy Clover multiple times and, while I don't think it's a good movie, do enjoy its oddity. Interesting that Robert Mulligan also directed Natalie Wood in Love with the Proper Stranger two years earlier - it's such a different film than Inside Daisy Clover, much more modern and realistic.
Olivier's make-up was so bad in Othello that I kept expecting to come off on Maggie Smith every time she embraced him.
Another fine Smackdown and podcast - I thought everyone did a really nice job: all were engaged this time and each had their own unique insights. Shelly Winters was my pick to win from the start and was glad that she prevailed. It was an overall weak crop of nominees but a good conversation sprang forth anyway. On to 1987!
Winters wins this easily, she plays a monster and nails it.
The ladies of Othello are good contenders, Gordons is just ok and Wood didn't deserve the nomination (I don't like the performances of the sound of music, except Julie Andrews).
Other possibilities better than Wood:
Blondell (The Cincinatti Kid)
Kyoko Kagawa (Red beard)
Geraldine Fitzgerald (The pawnbroker)
Claire Bloom (The spy...)
Thelma Ritter (Boeing boeing)
Vivien Leigh's campy as hell performance would win out for me. I really did adore Peggy Wood on my rewatch of The Sound of Music though.
Best movies of 1965:
1. The Sound of Music
2. The Umbrellas of Cherbourg
3. A Thousand Clowns
4. Repulsion
5. Woman in the Dunes
I have The Shop on Main Street as mostly being a '66 Oscar player, but it's absolutely brilliant too. {Ship of Fools, just fast forward to the ladies' parts and skip the rest.)
Claire Bloom actually is quite wonderful in The Spy Who Came in from the Cold. Director Martin Ritt drew out solid, bitingly realistic performances from a top-notch cast — particularly from an angst-driven Richard Burton.
rob -- thank you. we love hearing from people who listened to the whole thing :)
jules -- this is why i never feel like i'm wasting my time doing these even though some people might feel watching groups with a couple of possibly subpar movies (some years being way worse than others) is just that. I always find something interesting about watching movies, even the ones that aren't so great.
I agree with all the Eleanor Parker love but I think the Charmian Carr talk is a little hyperbolic.
Carr gives a wonderful but slightly silly performance; It’s iconic and she’s absolutely winning but the acting itself is nothing to write home about—quite uneven if you want to be hard on her. Of course, I have no wish to be hard on Liesl! It’s just not Oscar-worthy, in my opinion. Best not to overly scrutinize any of “the children’s” acting in that movie.
Peggy Wood really grounds her areas of the plot so I get her nomination and secretly love it. Parker deserved to win.
Peter I get the hate, but if you’re looking for a performance with fidelity to the novel and a well adapted script you’re hard pressed to find better.
Still liked Elizabeth Ashley in “Ship of Fools,” but that dance duet by Juliet Prowse with hottie Sal Mineo in “Who Killed Teddy Bear” rocked! And Elaine Stritch as a demented lesbian who tries to slip into Juliet’s fur coat has got to be seen to be believed. I would have nominated:
Winters
Gordon
Stritch
Prowse
Ashley
Happy that Shelley Winters won this Smackdown; in fact, the rankings resembles the order that I myself would rank them (Winters, Redman, Smith, Gordon, Wood)--I think that might be a first. Well . . . maybe I would switch Gordon and Wood.
My opinions in five nutshells:
Ruth Gordon: The performance doesn't ring true. But then so little of this film does.
Joyce Redman: A terrific surprise. Magnificent, forceful, stirring, emotionally potent.
Maggie Smith: Definitely competent, but muted. The magnificent Maggie, usually so sharply in focus, seems a little out-of-it here.
Shelley Winters: Marvellously flamboyant, gutsy, deliciously villainous.
Peggy Wood: In a blissfully beloved classic, she has the dubious distinction of being the dullest thing in it, even singing (or rather, not-singing) the dullest song in the musical.
I want to address a few things concerning Olivier's performance in Othello. I've noticed many comments on this site desecrate this performance without any specifics. Why? Simply because Olivier has used black make-up to achieve fidelity for the role? I've seen a few references to his performance as "problematic." What does this euphemism mean? Does it mean that his work is controversial? Divisive? Inept? Offensive? Racist?
I suspect there are commenters who are up in arms about Olivier's black make-up. But the job of all actors is to embody different characters and become someone they're not. Vivien Leigh wasn't Southern; Linda Hunt isn't a man; and James Cagney wasn't a gangster; yet all of them have given legendary performances--because of their talent and spirit--in those very same incarnations.
It's perfectly valid to criticize specific aspects of this performance, as Nathaniel and others on this site have done--some contend that Olivier is "playing to the gallery." I respect these comments, because, although I disagree (I think Olivier's excellent here), these comments reflect the performance itself. But many other comments don't seem grounded in any critical thought, or evaluate the actual performance; they seem to reflect merely a knee-jerk, politically correct reaction to Olivier's make-up.
It would be one thing if Olivier were to play the role mockingly, or with clichés to perpetuate crude racial stereotypes. These things, of course, would be objectionable and reprehensible. But that's not the case here. In fact, Olivier's make-up represents a tremendous commitment--and respect--to a classic Shakespearean role. Part of this actor's greatness lies in his willingness to do everything he can for a part--both in using his imagination to bring the character's emotions to life and using his craftsmanship to attain fidelity to the outward characteristics of the role. In fact, Olivier's make-up extends to all the visible parts of this body.This shows a fidelity and in fact, respect, of the role and its demands. To quote Pauline Kael, "This is a man . . . who changed his walk [and] changed his talk . . . . What is extraordinary is inside . . . and his determination to give it outer form."
Olivier's performance represents a tremendous commitment to a classic Shakespearean role. His courage, bravura, imagination, and skill deserve better than vague dismissiveness.