Smackdown '02: Meryl, Julianne, CZJ, Queen Latifah "and" Kathy Bates
Wednesday, June 17, 2020 at 4:12PM The Supporting Actress Smackdown series picks an Oscar vintage and explores.
THE NOMINEES Today's topic: 2002 which featured the movies Adaptation, The Hours, About Schmidt, and Best Picture champ Chicago. This very starry field of much-beloved actresses (all but one are now Oscar winners) deliver a juicy collection of characters: a horny mother-of-the-groom, a suicidal 50s housewife, an opportunistic prison warden, a fictionalized non-fiction writer, and a jazzbaby murderess.
THE PANEL Here to talk about these 2002 divas and their movies are comedian/writer Joel Kim Booster, comedian/writer Matt Rogers, Variety's Artisan's editor Jazz Tangcay, Vox's critic-at-large Emily VanDerWerff, and lip sync assassin Ben Yahr. And, as ever, your host at The Film Experience, Nathaniel R. Let's begin...
2002
SUPPORTING ACTRESS SMACKDOWN + PODCAST
The companion podcast can be downloaded at the bottom of this article or by visiting the iTunes page...
Kathy Bates as "Roberta Hertzel" in About Schmidt
Synopsis: The horny unfiltered mother-of-the-groom unnerves the father of the bride as their children's wedding approaches.
Stats: Then 54 yrs old, 36th film, 6th billed (with an "and" to make her special). Third (of four) nominations. 14 minutes of screen time (or 11% of the running time)
Joel Kim Booster: A horrible, condescending role for an actor that deserves better. I have an allergy to most of Alexander Payne's work, and this movie was no exception. I love Kathy, but I find it hard to believe there weren't more deserving performances this year. ♥
Matt Rogers: Relentlessly funny, and certainly scores yet another notch in her iconic scene bedpost (of which Kathy has a few) with her hot tub come-on. While the performance is brief and there isn't too much demanded of Kathy, she scores and scores and scores. Bates is obviously an immense talent and I always love to see a full out comedy performance nominated, but if this is the year we were doing that in a major way, then why not Andrea Martin in My Big Fat Greek Wedding? Probably because she wasn't already an Oscar favorite, which I think went a pretty long way here. ♥♥♥
Jazz Tangcay: Not her finest role. Revisiting About Schmidt after all these years -- it's still pretty awful. If anything, she is the best thing about it, but barely. Sorry, Kathy! ♥
Emily VanDerWerff: Bates is, as always, quite good, playing what feels like an evolutionary form of Annie Wilkes that is mutating into some of the characters the actress played on American Horror Story. But the performance is in service of the cruelest section of what might be Alexander Payne's cruelest movie, and Bates doesn't really push back against that tone, choosing to just go with the current of mocking these poor Coloradans. I suspect she got the nomination because of the nude scene, which surely would have been seen at the time as "brave." (It was frequently mentioned in the reviews.) But that scene is the nadir of the film's general "laughing at, not laughing with" vibe. ♥♥
Ben Yahr: Kathy Bates gives off real “cool aunt” energy in this role. The one who lets you smoke weed in her basement and really wants you to know what the 70’s were like. The second she walked into the jacuzzi naked, Kathy secured the Oscar nomination. Not a huge emotional range for her character, but a lot of grounded humanity and subtle humor. It’s a small part, and she made every second count. Her delivery of the line “Drink your fucking milk and shut the fuck up” nearly made me spit out my La Croix ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: An Oscar nomination for flashing the audience is as extremely "TOO MUCH" as the character Alexander Payne has written for Kathy Bates. Hmmm, "character" should be in quotes, too. Roberta is more of a non-dimensional vessel for outlandish lines of dialogue meant to jolt us into laughter than an actual person. That said, I found myself chortling at least three times, all due to random body language or weirdly specific line readings, especially one that is more gross than funny on the page. "Got anything for me in the bedpan?". ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "A complete scene stealer and the definition of ‘supporting.’ Always improves whatever movie or scene she appears in." - Tom F. (Reader average: ♥♥¾)
Actress earns 15¾ ❤s
Queen Latifah as "Matron Mama Morton" in Chicago
Synopsis: A warden arranges representation, press, and good lawyers for her prisoners... at a price.
Stats: Then 32 yrs old, 12th film, 4th billed. Her first (and only) nomination. 11 minutes of screentime (or 10% of the running time)
Joel Kim Booster: Sure! I wanted to roll my eyes at this nomination but watching it again today I warmed to it. She's certainly doing more than Kathy, and solidifies her place as a star if maybe not an actress. ♥♥
Matt Rogers: Dana is fun in Chicago. "When You're Good To Mama" isn't wasted on her. But this nomination rode a wave of love for the film surrounding it, and I think most people without knowledge of the Oscars would be surprised to hear it was given much awards consideration. There's nothing super challenging here (it's the role they'll most often stunt cast and throw to someone like Countess Luann on Broadway), and you have to imagine that every actress in Hollywood who could claim to be a Mama Morton type would give a fun take on it. I guess that's my big issue here: this role just doesn't ask much of an actress, and because it doesn't require ingenuity, it isn't given any by Latifah. But, like I said, fun! ♥♥
Jazz Tangcay: Look I love her in this. I think she's better than Julianne and Kathy in this lineup. I worship at the temple of Rob Marshall and this film. ♥♥♥
Emily VanDerWerff: Everybody in Chicago might be the best they've ever been in a movie. I'm not sure that's true of Latifah -- she's usually really good -- but her sole Oscar nomination is for one of her top three performances, at least. The only thing I would hold against her (and this isn't really a criticism of her) is the way that she sort of slides out of the movie after her big number. But "If You're Good to Mama" is a real showstopper, and I enjoy her role as a de facto member of Roxie Hart's legal counsel, which she turns into a proto-version of Kim Wexler from Better Call Saul, but one who sings. She's a step behind the two all-timer performances in this category for me, but only a step. ♥♥♥♥
Ben Yahr: Queen Latifah has one big number in this movie (justice for the cut song “Class”). And she was nominated for performing that song. The song was brilliantly done, but rest of the movie doesn’t give Queen that much to work with. There aren’t really enough emotional stakes for Matron Mama Morton to really wow us. Don’t get me wrong, middle school me was absolutely practicing my boa work secretly to “When You’re Good To Mama”. She added energy and charm to the movie. Queen Latifah is a solid and consistent actor, but I can’t help but think about Toni Collette being passed over that year ♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: Like her fellow nominee CZJ, Latifah charges into this movies eyes flashing, thrilled by the opportunity. Unfortunately for us, "When You're Good to Mama," with its boob-shaking and feather-waving is both a highly promising first impression and impossible to live up to. She's forgettable in her other (admittedly thin) scenes and the turn is missing the kind of comic twists or curious detailing that might have otherwise energized this very marginal role. I kept wanting more. ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Latifah plays it light, but there are shades of steel there. I get the impression Mama wouldn't be afraid to go all Nurse Ratchet on any of the chickies in her pen." - Tom G. (Reader average: ♥♥⅔)
Actress earns 18⅔ ❤s
Juianne Moore as "Laura Brown" in The Hours
Synopsis: A depressed 1950s housewive reads "Mrs Dalloway" while contemplating either suicide or abandoning her family.
Stats: Then 42 yrs old, 32nd film, 3rd billed. 3rd or 4th nomination (double-nominated this very year) out of five in her career. 28 minutes of screen time (or 25% of the running time).
Joel Kim Booster: Has the distinction of being the most maudlin performance in a movie full of them. I love Julianne, but I think she telegraphs a bit too much of the journey here, especially as compared to Toni Collette who does more with much less. ♥♥♥
Matt Rogers: A terrific portrayal of quiet, unbearable domestic agony. She is sort of playing a woman trapped inside a woman she doesn't know how to be. It looks like she literally hates being in her own skin. I particularly enjoy the way her voice and demeanor seem to change whenever she seems to think she's going to have a real connection with Toni Collette. She drops in and stops "performing" in a very subtle way. Moore's isn't my favorite performance in The Hours (that would be Streep), but the degree of difficulty here is quite high, even if some of the direction beats us over the head with how good the performance is. ACTING is very much HAPPENING in scenes such as Moore's performance for her husband from the bathroom, but that acting is great, and the audience feels what they need to feel as a result of it: really fucking sad. ♥♥♥♥
Jazz Tangcay: Another fine performance in a film with a superb cast but Toni Collette deserved it more and the film really belongs to Nicole Kidman. ♥♥
Emily VanDerWerff: I hated this movie in 2002, and I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated it in 2020. The degree to which it glamorizes the suffering of women and poor people, beating its chest in pursuit of Oscars makes it hard to appreciate any of the performances, and any time the movie zeroes in on something moving from its considerable cast, Philip Glass's score (good in isolation!) wanders in to blow everything out of the water. Moore is perfectly fine. I quite liked her in the concluding scene with Streep, and she does everything she's asked to do. But comparing this to her also-nominated work as a different '50s housewife in Far From Heaven that year -- it's not even a contest. ♥♥
Ben Yahr: This is the heart breaker of the category. The way Julianne keeps that dread bubbling just under the surface is masterful and devastating. And the moments between her Laura and Toni Collette’s Kitty made me (and I assume every gay watching) squeal. To be honest, the misery level in this film was a little too much for me to handle in this quarantine world we’re all in, but there’s no denying these actors are incredible. Julianne’s performance was expectedly impressive, but the academy was clearly in the mood for a little more razzle dazzle ♥♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: As a die-hard Julianne fan I must admit that I think this her weakest Oscar-nominated performance (the other four? *chef's kiss*). She's haunting, yes, but the filmmaking and the other actors are doing the heavy lifting; when I think of her in this film I am actually always thinking of the voice overlay of John C Reilly's "come to bed, Laura Brown," her little son's huge needy eyes, or Toni Collette's accidental sensuality and perfect housewife facade. Moore is solid but between Moore's two performances that trade on almost catatonic spiritual misery, give me the more disturbing /challenging Safe (1995) every time. ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Her stillness is so dynamic, an achievement that can only come at the hands of a skilled actress. " - Aditya (Reader average: ♥♥♥¾)
Actress earns 22¾ ❤s
Meryl Streep as "Susan Orleans" in Adaptation
Synopsis: A lonely New Yorker journalist worries that her secrets will be discovered when a screenwriter adapts her book.
Stats: Then 53 yrs old, 28th film, 2nd billed. 13th nomination (of an eventual 21). 32 minutes of screentime (or 28% of the running time.)
Joel Kim Booster: A bit cheeky of them to nominate this performance over what I think is a much better example of prime Meryl in The Hours. It goes some interesting places, but because of the nature of Kaufman's writing here it feels a bit thin. This movie is about Nic Cage and Chris Cooper, the women get a little forgotten. ♥♥♥
Matt Rogers: Very few things make me happier than watching Meryl Streep have fun. I always find my favorite performances of hers are her comedy ones, particularly when she explores vanity. With this performance, however, she's accessing an edgier, more sexual side of herself than we traditionally see. It's also one of the great examples of acting as if you're on drugs, and I particularly enjoy the moment when Susan Orlean realizes she is in fact high while brushing her teeth, leading to the delightful dial tone sequence. I don't even really have qualms with this performance, just that the movie isn't really for me and it's hard to get a finger on the character. She's still, overall, the best thing about Adaptation. But when is Meryl Streep not the best thing about whatever she's in (this includes The Hours)? "I want to be a baby again"? She sold that one. ♥♥♥♥
Jazz Tangcay: The material starts off great and by the third act it turns into a what is going on - swamp chase? But Meryl excels at the transition and she is fantastic. This performance is often cited in any top ten of Streeps. Watch all her scenes together and it's like an epic Meryl highlight reel. Love her in this. ♥♥♥♥
Emily VanDerWerff: Is it wrong to say this is my favorite Meryl Streep performance? Yes? No? If nothing else, she's so much better here than she is in The Hours. This performance would be worth it alone for the scene where she gets high, becomes entranced by the brushing of her teeth, imitates a dial tone, and just generally takes an already weird movie and hauls it into entirely weirder territory. (It's amazing how much of the film's shift from meta-storytelling to something else entirely is borne by Streep and Streep alone, and she makes it work, as you'd expect.) Plus when she's the more conventional spin on Susan Orlean, she's very good at capturing a journalist who treats her subjects like zoo animals. ♥♥♥♥♥
Ben Yahr: Like Meryl ever falls short of perfection. She brought an anxiety and fragility to this character that I for one definitely identified with. The end of this movie goes so wildly and intentionally off the rails, so I as the audience was very grateful for Meryl’s grounded and natural energy. This whole movie had that overly intellectualized, aimed at depressed people quality that so many movies had in the early 2000s. But Meryl has a singular ability to take mediocre material and elevate it to something human. All of her performances could have won Oscars, but this was clearly Catherine’s year ♥♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: In the annals of the Streepography, there are few scenes that equal the "dial tone" for sheer miracle of both craft and adorability. I also admire the way she slides between the real and the fictional skewerings of the same person though I admit to wishing that the demarcation line was a bit more visible. Still, this is a wow in terms of difficulty. If La Streep starts challenging herself like this again soon we will consider clamoring for a fourth Oscar. But I have to admit that I once thought of this as the Streep/Cooper movie but this time through Nicolas "my genre's thriller. What's yours?" Cage wins top honors. ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Streep‘s an easy winner for me. Such a funny, sad, singular, hypnotic performance so beautifully distilled in her last moments crying over Chris Cooper’s dead body and wishing she were a baby again in the swamp. One of many career peaks for Meryl." - Ray L. (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥¼)
Actress earns 29¼ ❤s
Catherine Zeta-Jones as "Velma Kelly" in Chicago
Synopsis: A vaudeville star, on trial for a double-homicide, finds public interest in her case diminishing after a new murderess joins her in the clink.
Stats: Then 33 yrs old, 12th film, 2nd billed. 1st (and only) nomination. 31 minutes of screentime (or 27% of the running time.)
Joel Kim Booster: I remember at the time thinking this was a silly, flashy nomination and win for CZJ, but watching it again, especially against these other performances, she wins it on sheer work alone. But the great thing about the performance is she never lets you see the work. A bit of category fraud maybe? This to me is as much a lead performance as Zellweger but I'll allow it. ♥♥♥♥
Matt Rogers: She shoots this movie out of a fucking cannon with "All That Jazz", and yet one could argue her most iconic moment comes during her at first matter of fact, then rageful, roaring solo in "Cell Block Tango". Not only is she perfect for the part, and not only is she pretty flawless in executing the physically, musically and comedically demanding role, but this is one of those Oscar wins that lives up to my personal rubric. I always watch performances and think, "could anyone else have done this?" Was it singular? And Catherine, to me, IS Velma Kelly. Every word that comes out her mouth is credible and natural. You really believe that they did have it comin'. A performer in total control, and so memorable that people often consider it a co-lead. It's solidly supporting. It's just that iconic. ♥♥♥♥♥
Jazz Tangcay: As I was watching this for the millionth time, I thought 'When is she getting her comeback?' Yes, she deserved that win and was and still is phenomenal in this, from the sexy "All that Jazz" to the even hotter "Cell Block Tango," she brings a sense of mischief and is simply sensational throughout. Five stars ...and more. ♥♥♥♥♥
Emily VanDerWerff: I remember finding this performance and the movie it's in overhyped back in 2002. In 2020, I don't know what I was thinking. Zeta Jones's spin on Velma Kelly is so enthralling. She nails the singing. She nails the dancing. She nails the scenes where Velma has to be vulnerable and the scenes where she has to pretend to be vulnerable. She's the perfect frenemy, the perfect accomplice, and the perfect song and dance chanteuse. It's to Renee Zellweger's credit that Zeta Jones doesn't run away with the movie, but she still takes the movie away at a slow walk. ♥♥♥♥♥
Ben Yahr: CZJ gave the gays everything they wanted with this performance. The heavy eyeliner, the high-school production of Thoroughly Modern Millie wig… we were fed. And hearing a non-American actor try to wrap their mouth around an American accent always tickles us. In fact, the deep throaty way she says CICERO is probably why I turned out the way I did. She brought a sense of chaos and rage to Velma Kelly that thrilled us all. There were only a few moments of vulnerability for CZJ to dig into (I’ll never forget the reveal of her worn and ripped stockings). If there were more, this could have been a flawless performance. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: Super charged from her defiantly angry entrance, which plays like a deadly come-on, through to her worn-stocking vulnerable last gamble. She never steps a foot wrong, killing every musical number, every self-regarding line read, and best of all managing a tangled through-line on her resentful but practical feelings towards her dumber, but savvier, counterpart. Zeta-Jones's Velma is from the extremely limited subgenre of 'Actors Who Obviously Know While Filming That This is The One They'll Be Remembered For' and subsequently attack as if their legacy depends on it. Which it does. I'd like to rate this performance by emojis so it's pure 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥. Or, rather... ♥♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "The juiciest role of all 5 roles and boy, she is nailing every beat." - Cesar (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥¼)
Actress earns 32¼ ❤s
Result: Catherine Zeta-Jones was a lock for the Oscar and, in a mild surprise, she's also the runaway winner again at the Smackdown!
THE FULL PODCAST CONVERSATION
Download at the bottom of this post 👇 or on iTunes to hear the in-depth discussion.
NEXT UP: The 1957 Oscar race will be discussed on July 6th. Watch Best Picture nominees Peyton Place and Witness for the Prosecution, as well as Sayonara and The Bachelor Party (if you can find them) before then to maximize your enjoyment of the next Smackdown. [All Previous Smackdowns]
Reader Comments (85)
I love Meryl & Kathy, like Catherine & Queen and Julianne...ehh (though she's astonishing in her other nominated turn this year). Can't wait to listen!
Zeta-Jones is my choice from this group, though I half expected Moore (who I nominate in Leading) to be her closest rival - instead she was most divisive!?
My own line-up...
1) Patricia Clarkson - Far From Heaven
2) Catherine Zeta-Jones - Chicago
3) Toni Collette - The Hours
4) Geraldine McEwan - The Magdalene Sisters
5) Eileen Walsh - The Magdalene Sisters
I was briefly worried that Streep was going to take this (I am not a fan of that movie in any way), but I am glad that Zeta-Jones pulled it out. For me, it was between her and Moore for the win.
Really wanted to have participated in this one because this one of my favorite Oscar years (solely for the Spirited Away win), but I didn't have time to revisit all of those films. I still thoroughly enjoyed the recap.
Where to watch...
SAYONARA: https://ok.ru/video/1306946374342
THE BACHELOR PARTY: https://ok.ru/video/1301747927577
This Russian kinda YouTube is a true treasure trove. You'll find practically 90% of all classic films.
My Best Supporting Actress was Nicole Kidman. But giving in to peer pressure and moving her into Lead my Top 5 are:
1. Miranda Richardson Spider
2. Mary-Lynn Rajskub Punch-Drunk Love
3. Patricia Clarkson Far from Heaven
4. Raven Goodwin Lovely and Amazing
5. Meryl Streep Adaptation
Kathy Bates just misses the cut.
Disagree strongly with the take on Bates being a broad or condescending caricature in About Schmidt.
The whole point of the movie is that Warren lives a life of timidity and Roberta is the perfect counterpoint. Free and unashamed where Warren Schmidt is fearful and inhibited.
In the hot tub scene the comedy is quite correctly derived from Nicholson's discomfort, and not in the Adam Sandler movie way where the joke is that someone who doesn't look like a model dares think of themselves as a sexual person. She makes it clear she is available and he scampers off like a frightened bunny. Jokes on him.
They could have had her saying all manner of crass thing or the camera could have lingered on her body for "comedic" effect but there's none of that. Her actual nudity is fleeting and her come-on to Warren in the tub is actually pretty tactfully expressed. The only thing that's really held up for humor about her in the hot tub scene is her general flakiness (we make our own Christmas gifts!) To hear Payne and the character described as so condescending and mean-spirited you think she was doing a striptease to shitty country music while braying "Does this make you horny?" like Austin Powers.
@Michael Cusumano-Finally, someone who gets it. Thank you. My vote would've been for Bates and her nude scene is actually more of "I'm a real woman and this is what I look like naked. Deal with it!" OK, then. If she invites me to her bed where I'm her bitch. You goddamn right I'll enjoy it.
I also second everything Michael Cusumano says. The panel's reactions to Kathy Bates' performance really surprised me.
thevoid99-
Surprised you didn't label Bates an aging dinosaur the way you do others.
Great work as always, can't help feeling that people were a little harsh on Moore, Bates and Latifah - this is a fantastic supporting lineup and all the women deserved the nom - even if there were a few more interesting performances that weren't nominated.
CZJ is one for the ages but I thoroughly enjoyed all these performances (and yes, I would have snuck Collette in there over Moore too.)
Little disappointed by a lack of effort from some of the panel but hey - you'll know who to invite again at least.
Thanks Nathaniel - loving this series so much :)
Thanks for this fun series. I haven't seen the Kathy Bates movie, but the other four movies are pretty iconic and this was a year where five great performers were celebrated. Would have loved to have been at the bar when Meryl and Kathy toasted and celebrated their loss during the commercial break.
This is such an inspired line up and 2002 is one of my fave Oscar years but the commentaries made by one of the panelists seem very... lazy. It’s not you Nathaniel of course. I love this site and this series a lot.
I love Chicago, but still can't get behind CZJ. In this lineup - to me - she is clearly the 5th!
I think this is one of the best group of nominees ever. I would double nominate Moore in lead and in her place in supporting i would go with Michelle Pfeiffer in White Oleander.
Great podcast! It was fun to revisit the supporting actress performances this year and a handful 2002 movies that I hand't seen.
Nathaniel: thank you for your recommendations of Infernal Affairs, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, and Late Marriage. While I was maybe too committed to my top ten for 2002 to bump any of them, these three films are now on my top 15!
Catherine Zeta-Jones just runs away with this role and category. I went into Chicago with the total attitude that I am a Hedwig-gay, not a Chicago-gay, but man CZJ just melted all my preconceptions and took my along for her ride.
Of the nominees, I love Julianne Moore. But the great Miranda Richardson in Spider should have been here -- one of the great performances of all time.
100% agree w/ Michael C on Kathy Bates's performance and the context in which the director presented it.
Will never get the big love for CZJ but art is very subjective.
And looks like just about all of us agree that Toni Collette should've been nominated for her great scene in The Hours. What moxie she has!
Love this feature a lot and looking forward to the next one in July. Hope I can manage to see Bachelor Party in particular.
Chicago is one of the worst and poorly cast movies there is. The Hours is my #1 film of all time. That is all.
A quite strong year for the category, my list would be:
1.Meryl Streep (Adaptation, but I think she's better in The hours)
2.Catherine Zeta Jones (Chicago)
3.Julianne Moore (The hours)
4.Kathy Bates (About Schmidt)
5.Miranda Richardson (Spider)
Latifah is my numer 13.
Ooh, I forgot about Michelle Pfeiffer in White Oleander. Sorry Kathy but you are the weakest link.
My votes:
1) Meryl Streep in ADAPTATION, ♥♥♥♥♥ (five hearts)
In Adaptation, Meryl Streep has to play two characters. She is Susan Orlean, the real woman within the film's universe, and also a facsimile of Susan that Charlie Kaufman imagines. She plays them both in separate and in conjunction, often commanding the shifting tones of the film along the way. The metatextual nature of the script demands such command from her and Streep obliges, especially as the layers of fiction and adaptation unravel near the end. In essence, this is an incredibly complicated role but Streep plays it with such ease it often appears to be one of her most effortless performances. Loose, sensual, full of inarticulate sadness and offbeat humor, this is one of this legendary actress' towering achievements.
2) Catherine Zeta-Jones in CHICAGO, ♥♥♥♥♥ (five hearts)
No matter what she sings, we know that Zeta-Jones can do it alone. She spends the entirety of her movie proving that, outshining every single cast member with a performance that's like a supernova of charisma and raw showmanship. Be it dancing in fetish underwear, singing a tune of naked despair, or playing up the bitchiness of a fame-hungry killer, the actress meets the challenges Chicago throws at her with as much precision as bombast. I've often doubted Zeta-Jones' talent as a film actress, but Velma Kelly is the perfect role for her and she knows how to make the most of it. Whenever Catherine's onscreen, I believe Chicago deserved that Best Picture Oscar. That's a testament to the power of her performance.
3) Julianne Moore in THE HOURS, ♥♥♥♥ (four hearts)
For years, I considered Moore's Laura Brown to be The Hours' weakest link. Re-watching the film after having confronted my issues with depression and mental health, I now recognize I was wrong. Laura may come off like an unfinished sketch, but the actress fills her portrayal with subtle details that paint a full picture of desperation. From the frightened way she looks at kitchenware to the stiff awkwardness of social interaction, Laura is a woman drowning and, through Moore, we understand that, to her, abandoning the family is indeed a matter of life and death. In her final scenes, she shows the cost of that decision, playing not the mourning mother, but a woman accustomed to loss who is perfectly aware she'll never know forgiveness. Old Laura is calm, while her younger self was tremulous, and, in her wrinkle-framed eyes, we see someone who feels the cost of choosing life but doesn't regret that decision.
4) Queen Latifah in CHICAGO, ♥♥♥ (three hearts)
"When You're Good to Mama" is a showstopper that Latifah performs with playful sensuality and just enough authoritarian confidence to make it work. It's one hell of an entrance and the actress's nails it, but the problem with starting so high is that it's all downward from thereon. Queen Latifah never does anything overtly wrong in Chicago, but she also doesn't surprise the audience in any way. It's a straightforward, perfectly pleasant, take on a limited role that could have used some actorly idiosyncrasies to make it more interesting. Still, that big number is fabulous.
Kathy Bates in ABOUT SCHMIDT, ♥♥ (two hearts)
Manages to find good humor in Payne's caustic script and actually brings some warmth to a film in dire need of it. Truth be told, Kathy Bates didn't deserve to be saddled with this barely sketched out character who, instead of a coherent characterization, gets a handful of one-liners. The actress does what she cans with the part, but there's not much to do. Michael C's take on the character is interesting, but, while watching the film, I just don't see it. That being said, I' not a fan of Payne's cinema (at all) so my antipathy towards him and his humor may be clouding my judgment.
Good smackdown, and I appreciated learning that Catherine Zeta-Jones had only slightly more screen time than Julianne Moore and Meryl Streep.
Matt Rogers: Dana is fun in Chicago. "When You're Good To Mama" isn't wasted on her. But this nomination rode a wave of love for the film surrounding it, and I think most people without knowledge of the Oscars would be surprised to hear it was given much awards consideration...
This reminds me a little bit of how sportswriters would refer to Muhammad Ali as "Cassius". Unless Matt Rogers knows Queen Latifah personally, or the line "Dana is fun in Chicago" contains some inside joke or pop culture reference that I missed, it seems kind of disrespectful.
Also, I wonder why anyone would single out Queen Latifah's nomination as riding "a wave of love for the film surrounding it" when you could say the same, and probably more, about John C. Reilly. Sure, he had a solid year in multiple films, but he was, literally, Mr. Cellophane.
Loved reading/listening to this! Wish Streep had pulled it out but this is a strong lineup overall. I like Zeta-Jones but didn’t really feel her connecting much with other actors in her scenes. I get that Velma is self obsessed and sees her self as the star of her own show but Zeta-Jones maybe uses that as an excuse to not connect with her co-stars. Good work, though, and a solid win. Thanks for including my quote again Nathaniel!
My own personal lineup:
Clarkson, Far From Heaven
Davis, Solaris
Huppert, 8 Women
Staunton, Changing Lanes
Streep, Adaptation
Streep would be my winner
Was still hoping Streep to take it (and I sent my votes too late dangit!!) but I expected Zeta-Jones, which is easier to love and slightly less divisive, to trump her. Which is totally fine by me. It's such a fun, wildly entertaining performance. It's been basically 20 years but it's so easy to revisit the film and go ah yes, absolutely, an Oscar winning turn.
Surprised the other three were that divisive, and I think Latifah's especially underrated in it. Who shines and is limited in similar ways that Zeta-Jones is but just has much less time and role to show it.
I get the appeal of having all these stars, but I find this such a dull lineup (outside of Streep and CZJ).
I adore Julianne Moore, but she's outshined by actual supporting actresses in The Hours.
Latifah and Bates aren't bad, but we could have had Pfeiffer, Richardson (in Spider), Clarkson, Morton...
I wouldn't be able to choose between CZJ, Streep, Toni Collette and those 4. Instead, we have this.
Fun fact: Bates was Marshall's first choice for Matron Mama Morton. She couldn't commit to the part in order to do About Schmidt.
Adaptation is one of my favorite movies of the 00's. And the only Streep movie that deserves to be preserved for posterity.
The disrespect on the podcast for The Hours and Moulin Rouge! is far too much :P I'm joking, of course, but I confess I've rarely been more out of step with the opinions expressed by the panelists on the podcast. Kidding and whining aside, it's always nice to hear dissenting perspectives. If we all held the same opinions, it would be incredibly boring.
By the way, my ballot for 2002, taking into account Oscar eligibility:
- Toni Collette, THE HOURS
- Viola Davis, SOLARIS
- Michelle Pfeiffer, WHITE OLEANDER (my winner)
- Miranda Richardson, SPIDER
- Meryl Streep, ADAPTATION
Great work guys. The smackdown is always so much fun!
Ha. I didn't realize that Madame X was still coming to these parties and emitting a big fart.
Out of the lineup, I still would pick Julianne Moore for THE HOURS. The despair and devastation she emotes still sticks with me to this day and I haven't watched THE HOURS in quite a while. She is still the winner from my nominees.
Mine are:
Drew Barrymore - CONFESSIONS OF A DANGEROUS MIND
Julianne Moore - THE HOURS
Michelle Pfeiffer - WHITE OLEANDER
Meryl Streep - ADAPTATION
Catherine Zeta-Jones - CHICAGO
I would have bet a million dollars on Meryl but I'm always pleased when she loses.
I share the Collette love.
For the record, Kathy Bates nude scene is still brave in 2020. Has anyone else done that recently?
Thank you all for reminding me of Miranda Richardson's magnificent performance in Spider!
Such a great group of actresses. I like all these movies and the nominated performances. But I’m really surprised by the cruel feedback the panelists gave to Kathy Bates and Queen Latifah (I think they did a pretty good job). Julianne Moore is my favorite in The Hours - she’s at her best in 2002 - while Streep overacted in ALL her scenes (she’s so much better in Adaptation). But I have to agree with everyone who said Miranda Richardson in Spider should have a spot in this stellar line-up: she’s my runner-up best supporting actress of 2002 just because I’m gay and I can’t resist Catherine Zeta-Jones in Chicago!
I really wanted Meryl Streep to win the Smackdown, but Catherine Zeta Jones is such a worthy winner. I love the consensus that Toni Collete should have been among the nominees.
What are Nat's nominations for 2002? Thank you for continuing the Smackdowns. They are awesome!
When people said Toni Collette should have been nominated in 2002, I always thought we are talking about About a Boy. I mean, sure she was quite good in The Hours (which as pointed out by the panel, was helped by the contrast in energy from Moore) but not really the same league as her performance in About a Boy.
Adaptation. and Chicago are both movies that I remember fondly so I am glad things turn out the way they did for this Smackdown. My favorite CZJ number in Chicago is actually "I Can't Do It Alone". That one sealed the win for me. Such physicality and charm!
Can you give us the highlights of the podcast? minutes and everything
i give further love to Michael Cusumano's take on Kathy Bates in About Schmidt. The joke's on Nicholson indeed.
i think CZJ's "dancing" in Chicago is a little military and not so elegant, but agree overall she is wonderful in it.
i think The Hours is a stunning achievement, especially how the A themes of the book become the B themes of the movie, and the B themes of the book become the A themes of the movie. So carefully crafted, and really out there in its commitment to a super heightened emotional tone.
fun read as always. thanks to the team for the work!
My choice would have been Streep for the win, although I thought she was ever better in The Hours. I am also in the Toni Collette camp. I was mesmerized by her, does so much with so little, she stole the scene from Moore. She should have been nominated.
1. Streep 4.5 stars
Has a hard part to play, she colors in all the shades so you always know where the character is. Great comedienne. But, not her best of the year for me -- she is subline in The Hours.
2. Zeta Jones 4.5 stars
Wonderful vocals and dancing, physically embodies the character. Great charisma. Maybe just a tad one-note which keeps me from a 5* rating, could have shaded in her attempts to be humble.
3. Moore 4 stars
When I first saw this movie (which I love) she was the least of it for me, on re-watching over time I find her to be quite good. You have to watch her like it was a silent film performance. She is great in both the TC and old age scenes.
4. Bates 3 stars
Did a good job with the material, shaded the character so you get a good sense of who she is - the anti-Schmidt. Not afraid, she knows and asks for what she wants.
5. Latifah 2 stars
Her vocals are great and she sells her one number, but I don't feel like she brought anything to the table beyond what is clearly on the page. No great chemistry with RZ or CSJ - she's just OK.
A horrible Oscar year: The Hours is a stifled, SNL parody of a book (Nicole Kidman in the woods with the snails?), while About Schmidt shows Alexander Payne's chronic inability to deal with small town people. Even if viewers think the "Dear Mbutu" voice-overs make fun of Jack Nicholson, so what? Is the joke worth it?
Alexander Payne is so misunderstood/under-appreciated on this blog.
Bhuray -- my line up at the time was
CLARKSON - far from heaven
NEUWIRTH - tadpole
PFEIFFER -white oleander
STREEP - adaptation
ZETA-JONES chicago
and my runners up were Samantha Morton -Minority Report, Isabelle Huppert -8 Women, and Edie Falco -Sunshine State (i had Miranda Richardson in Spider nominated the following year because the movie was one of those qualifying releases so it didnt open in NYC until 2003.)
OWEN -- i actually really like Payne in general... just not About Schmidt (but yeah the panel definitely wasn't into him)
So happy Michelle is getting some love for White Oleander. That’s a great 👍 performance. Seems to be a strong memorable year for movie fans. Ladies you are all winners.
Zeta Jones ? That s why academy awards is a mess.
2002 was the first year I got into Oscars, so I have to say it was so much fun revisiting these four films. You can think about much you've changed by thinking about how these films have changed for you!
I think the surprise minor MVP in The Hours may be Janney, who lets you know how insufferable Ed Harris and Jeff Daniels are even without them appearing on screen, just by her reaction to their names. The Ed Harris part is really uncomfortable and overwritten, and is the only part that takes it to "sadness porn" for me. As one of the panelists said, the director is wringing too much out of Streep. The Julianne stuff works better for me, though, in the spirit of the podcast, I'm interested in seeing her and Streep switch roles.
If we're including runners up, mine were:
Patricia Clarkson - FAR FROM HEAVEN
Jennifer Ehle - POSSESSION
Queen Latifah - CHICAGO
Samantha Morton - MINORITY REPORT
Emily Watson - RED DRAGON
Thanks for sharing your nominees, Nat! Would they hold up today for you? Or have they changed?
I am so thrilled Catherine Zeta-Jones ran away with this, because she is just SUPERB in Chicago. Nathaniel said it best:' She is part of the Actors Who Obviously Know While Filming That This is The One They'll Be Remembered For' (which is quite timely, considering her filmography since then hasn't been anything to rave about).
This is the ultimate example of an actor using all her gifts to deliver the most exhilarating performance. Catherine started her career in musical theatre in the West End and thank god Rob Marshall had an actor who was a true triple-threat. She's sexy, mysterious, dangerous, and charming - often all at the same time. Lord, can she sing and dance like nobody's business! One of my personal favorite best supporting actress wins ever.
Happy that Catherine Zeta-Jones won. What a fantastic performance!
In fact, almost the whole line-up's good. But I'd replace Julianne Moore with the superb Patricia Clarkson in "Far from Heaven."
Curious to watch "White Oleander" after reading so many raves about Michelle Pfeiffer. To the fans: What is it about that performance that you like (love)?
My runners-up -
6) Miranda Richardson - Spider
7) Fanny Ardant - 8 Women
8) Meryl Streep - Adaptation
9) Judy Greer - Adaptation
10) Sally Hawkins - All Or Nothing
I think that Bates and Latifah (in that order) are both very good and that Moore is excellent (double-nominated in Leading).
Unpopular opinion - the MVP of Minority Report is Lois Smith and not Morton...