Interview: "Clodagh" Director Portia A. Buckley

By Ben Miller

Director Portia A. Buckley is in the middle of a whirlwind experience. Not only has her short film Clodagh been listed on the BAFTA longlist for Best Short Film, it was also announced as a finalist for the Best Live Action Short Oscar. I recently spoke to her about the chaos of awards season, her relationship with cinematographer Jomo Fray, prepping her for bad interview questions, and keeping her film lighter in tone...

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.

Ben Miller:  Thank you so much for joining me. Congratulations on your film. It's such a fascinating look into a world that's kind of so foreign to me. Between Ireland, Catholicism, dancing; certainly not something that should appeal to someone like me. Did you like attempt to make something this specific or were you kind of like attempting some sort of universality in what you were trying to tell?

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: Well, it's very interesting because of course, the film has played really well. And I think it's very interesting because we are interested that it seems to be so universal, and that the story of a priest's housekeeper from rural Ireland, is somehow accessible. I've thought about a lot, and I think fundamentally, regardless of Institutions she finds herself in. You know, obviously she's devout, she's disciplined, she's moral. She has a strict moral code. She's a rule abider. Fundamentally she witnesses something and in what she witnesses, she feels like she has witnessed God's hand, but really, she's witnessed artistic expression.

And I think there's two things. There's one thing, which is that she can witness artistic expression and it can change her; someone that's never changed ever before. And I think that's something that's kind of joyous and is really about a celebration of life that people can relate to. It's exciting that art can change people. But I think also, fundamentally, it has that universal strand going through it, which is: we've all come up against moral conundrums, big or small.

It's that kind of age old question, like, do you follow your head or your heart? And Mrs. Kelly, I feel us as the audience are really willing her to follow her heart. People come up against that in all different walks of life. So in a way, that is a universal thing of what's the moral thing to do.

There's also this sort of level that the film works on, which is the fact that it touches on, Clodagh the dancer is from a different area code. a different kind of geography, different parish, and it's really kind of a silly rule, but it's all about the kind of bureaucracy and red tape that we all come up against, and we're all sort of rule abiding in a way in the society we're in without necessarily questioning things. Although it's a very, very specific kind of obscure place, it's a rural, timeless countryside. Those are the themes I think that, that carry through into our everyday life.

Ben Miller: It's a very strikingly visual film. I was curious how you were able to sync up with somebody like Jomo Fray because I joked in my Letterboxd review that this was like Roger Deakins lighting a thesis film. And every time, every shot, I'm like, "Man, this is shot really well." I looked it up and I'm like, "Oh, Jomo Fray is doing it...okay. That explains that." How did that partnership come about?

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: Well, um, it was, it was, it was, it was lucky. So I was at Tisch, I did my MFA at Tish NYU and so did Jomo. He was a couple of years above me and his last year, his thesis year, his sort of fourth year was my second year. And we worked together on my second year film, which was a film called Radiator. That was also a film that was shot in rural Ireland. So, then we'd try to work together. That was probably seven years ago. And then, we tried to work together again. Covid, complications, you know how it goes.

Photo courtesy of Afternoon Pictures/PG ProductionsObviously his career trajectory has just gone up and up. Up and up and up and up and up. He did come off Nickel Boys when he came to Ireland to shoot Clodagh. But we have a wonderful working relationship. I mean, we're friends as well. But only through working, working with one another. And I did message him and I said, you know, would you, uh, are you a "strictly features" kind of guy now, or will you release it? He's like, for you, of course. We want to work together, we want to continue collaborating together. It was lucky that we worked together seven years ago and we had this relationship. He's also very cool because obviously we were very fortunate that we got some Kodak sponsorship and I've won a couple of prizes for previous films I've made with Kodak that came with Kodak film stock as prizes.

Obviously he loves shooting on film. That would be his ideal, but we can shoot on an iPhone if we have to, he's a very cool guy and he's a true artist himself. I'd been in Amsterdam and I, someone had gotten a call from a friend of theirs and got some tickets cancelled for this Vermeer show that was on in Amsterdam at the time. You literally couldn't get tickets for...like impossible. And she called me and she was like, I've got tickets to the Vermeer. Do you want to come today? And I was like, sure! Tomorrow morning, 6 am, be there. We've got to queue, or whatever. I was like, yeah!

And then I called Jomo and I saw these. I'd studied art history, so I'd already been thinking a little bit about Vermeer, but I saw these images and they were all like these jewels and the work was sort of center frame, shown as a virtue. The women in service like Mrs. Kelly, they weren't depicts mothers and things like that. And there was this incredible light. And so I message Jomo and I said, "We've gotta shoot it like a Vermeer." And subsequently, so many people have said about the film that it looks very Vermeer like without knowing that. So he did a very good job. That's with an amazing gaffer as well.

It was a collaboration, really. But yeah, he's amazing and this is what happened with Radiator and this is why I love working with him as well. I mean, he's a total artist in his own right, but he really likes working with natural light and manipulating natural light and mirrors and white sheets and black sheets and bounce, which is really what I love as well.

Ben Miller: Which is where you get this kind of rather amazing quality in that film, where it doesn't feel like there's electricity lighting, especially in those scenes where she's in her little room and it's so dark. But at the same time, you have a film that he shoots like Nickel Boys, which is mostly in the outside and brightness. And then on the flip side, he's still able to have this darkness, but still be visual. It's such a, a talent to be able to be able to do both sides as opposed to just one side of the thing.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: And he's an amazing filmmaker himself because, this is what all good kind of cinematographers and direction photographers do, but he's always serving the story and talking about her story. And although it all looks gorgeous, it's never really style over content. It's always talking about what's supporting the narrative here. And sort of what's the integrity to the project as a whole. He's very selfless like that in the kind of workings he does. But yeah, I loved...hopefully get to work with him again. I know he's going to be too big time now.

Ben Miller: Speaking of big time, how are you handling all this? Obviously, this film has won a number of accolades, but are you able to step back and appreciate it? Or is it still just kind of too much of a whirlwind to really comprehend where you are?

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: Well, you know, we made this film with zero expectation. It was my friend Tukey, who's a Ugandan director, came over and was a lighting technician. My friend Thomas, from NYU, was Second AC, Jomo had Callie Riley as a first AC and Austin Smoak as a loader. So people that he's worked with before on different films. So there's lots of friends coming together for the love of film. And actually, the 35 millimeter was a big draw. When you watch the film, the people are very passionate about it. So people that come together. My brother was there. It was a great, my mom was doing art direction.

I'm just saying it was a real family from Tisch pulling together. So we had no idea about this life that this film would go and have. I was thrilled when I got into Tribeca because I'd obviously been at NYU. It was such a big festival. The four or five years I was there, so it had sort of something that I felt very personally connected to it and it was New York and it was amazing being able to having lived in New York, going back to New York with a piece of work, wanting to be a filmmaker and all this stuff. But I mean, we had no idea that it was going to have this life.

So, it has been a bit of a whirlwind. We just feel very kind of honored really to be in the mix. Like I said, it's just such a collaboration of so many different artists coming together and creating this one piece of work. So, it's taking the credit for all those people, really. It feels great, but yes, it is a whirlwind, you know, uncharted waters of Academy campaigning. I knew nothing about it and you learn quite fast. People watch 30 films and they choose from the 30 that's their favorite 15 and then...I knew nothing about any of this stuff.

But no, it's been a bit of a whirlwind. I mean in a way it all happens quite quickly and I just got it the other day. Thank God, because I don't think I could stay in this stasis for much longer.

Ben Miller: That was my question, because like a guy like me...I'm obsessed with the Oscars. It pretty much dominates most things I watch. A nomination would obviously raise your profile, but obviously it would just be an incredible accomplishment, like you said, for yourself and for your collaboration of filmmakers. So, how are you trying to approach next Friday (note: Oscar nominations have been rescheduled to Thursday, January 23rd)? Like, are you trying to just not think about it? Or is it dominating every moment of your thoughts because you have to talk to people like me about it?

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: It's so funny, there's two things you do. My dad's Irish, my mom's Italian. So the Italian side: super superstitious. So I never like thinking that anything can happen. But then since I was speaking to someone the other day and they said, you know, I hope you're manifesting. I was like, well, that goes directly in conflict with my superstitious side. I firstly feel very happy to have got this far.

It's sort of mad, the whole thing. Oscars, it's such a big deal, like you said, ever since I was a kid wanting to be a filmmaker, it's like, the Oscars, you know? So, it seems sort of completely surreal. I haven't seen them all, but I'm sure there's some really brilliant films in the mix.

Image courtesy of Afternoon Pictures/PG Productions

We haven't thought about it. Yeah. We have been thinking about it, but at the same time, I think the whole thing's so surreal that in a way. You can feel disappointed about things, but if you don't make the cut, I'm not...we deserve that. We should be getting a gift.

I think that the Oscar itself is obviously so amazing, but as a filmmaker, I really want to be able to make movies. So anything, anything that helps support that journey is just obviously invaluable to me. I do keep on waking up in the middle of the night and sort of wondering why I'm awake and...I mean, so stressful.

Ben Miller: I get it. Like you said, you have to talk to people like me and you're like trying to answer the same nine questions over and over again. I want to be your in-road into the annoying, stereotypical interview questions like, "Oh, how did this film come about?" and "Did you always know you wanted to be a filmmaker?" So I can be your in-road to future annoying questions.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: I'm ready.

Ben Miller: Okay, let's see here. Okay, so you're a woman. You're a woman filmmaker. That's crazy. What's that like? That'll be a good one to start with so you can practice to not roll your eyes.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: Obviously your identity as a filmmaker is such a big part of [it]. For me, of course I am a female filmmaker, but obviously I do tell female driven stories and female protagonists, so there's clearly a connection between how I identify, and what the sort of stories I'm talking about. I feel like I was worried there's a danger of creating a subcategory and in a way I would like to just be seen as a filmmaker because you want to kind of create a kind of level playing field between all filmmakers.

I don't know whether that goes against sort of the reality is that I am making kind of female-driven content. So you can only do what you're going to do. But also, people say, "Oh, what's it like being a filmmaker?" I feel like actually now is a good time to be a female filmmaker. I feel like people are actually very attentive to female voices and female filmmaker voices. And if there's probably ever been a time to be one, now is probably it.

On a level, that's a good, that's a good point. But I mean, like you said, the big thing is, is, So, so your goal would be to eventually, like with, with kind of this in the back of your mind about like, okay, my profile might be raised soon.

Ben Miller: So your goal would be to eventually, with kind of this in the back of your mind, like, okay, my profile might be raised soon. Do you already have the project in the back of your mind about what you want to do?

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: I mean honestly, regardless of what happens with these awards, with the Oscars and the BS, if I was going to base everything, anything really on the outcome of that, it would almost be math because it's so competitive, and the odds are stacked against you. I definitely do have a project. We've developed Clodagh into a feature.

Image courtesy of Afternoon Pictures/PG Productions

I work with my life partner. We have a kid together and we work together. He's my producer. So he's a very important person in my life. We've just finished the feature script and we've got another feature we've been working on.

So regardless, I hope those, those films happen. And I think that's the beauty of making short films. They take five days to make, you can pull in and essentially you're creating something that stands alone, but a sample of your work almost as an insurance policy to financiers to be like: "'m not going to mess it up, or show that you're a reliable kind of artist.

Ben Miller: Proof of concept, essentially.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: Yeah, proof of concept or just that you can handle material or character driven material, or you can write dialogue or whatever it is. Regardless of all the craziness, I have a sort of strong idea of what I would like to do.

Ben Miller: I talked to another female filmmaker, and I was talking about the different stuff she wanted to do. And her husband was American, and she said, "Well, he wants me to make a Marvel film so we can have a bigger apartment." Do you have like these grand, "I want to do big things," or do you more care about the story and the character, or do you not want to limit yourself in kind of the genres you are willing to go into?

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: Well, it's so funny because my dad always says to me and Mike, "Why don't you make a film about a dog? Or, why don't you make a Christmas movie?" Because he's obviously thinking about commercially viable projects. We're definitely interested in kind of independent cinema. And character driven narratives. And that's what all our stuff is really, character driven narratives. And it's always the character leading the plot rather than the plot leading the characters.

I trained at Tisch. That's what I know and what I understand as a filmmaker and what I kind of lean into writing with Mike. It's kind of interesting, you look at what Greta Gerwig did the fabulous Lady Bird. And then she did Barbie, which obviously isn't Marvel, but I'm just saying, it's big budget. I think it's about experience really and I wouldn't say no to anything, but I don't dream of a Marvel.

Ben Miller: Okay, so it's like the line from Conclave. Every potential Pope knows what his [papal] name is going to be.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: I also believe that as a filmmaker, you know, if you make what's true to yourself, your voice is unique, your voice. And when you're young, you think, well, what is my voice? And it's just like, it's how you see the world. It's what you want to write about. It's what you're drawn to. And I do definitely believe that if you have the integrity of what it is that you want to write about and you want to do. I mean, obviously you're hopeful that an audience will respond to it and it's something that people want to see.

Like you will then be able to get these bigger projects because you really show your abilities or your kind of blood or core or essence. Then you can work on bigger things because you established yourself a bit. That's all you can...you're filmmakers, so you just want to tell a story.

Ben Miller: Once again, congratulations on the film. I really enjoyed it. A really sweet time. A very easy watch. By the way, like I said, I'm an Oscar obsessive, so I've been tearing through all the short films. I was really, really happy that I wasn't depressed after I was done watching your film. It was much more uplifting than some of the other ones.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: I think that that's actually a big part of it. We wrote Clodagh six months after we had our son. And I think not only it was only in hindsight a long time later that we realized that really we made a film about a child coming into someone's life and turning it upside down and the joys with that, and the excitement of that, but also at the same time, how do you stabilize it as well?

I think we were feeling very joyful and as parents, we used to spend our whole time just going to the movies, and having so much time. Tthen like you become a parent and then your free time is...you don't have free time anymore, really, especially when they're little.

And so we did feel a responsibility of kind of entertaining the audience and I hope that Clodagh does that. And actually making something kind of, that celebrates human expression, rather than criticizes it. By the way, we've made lots of darker subject matter in the past, but you know, life is tough. It is nice to be able to have these moments of celebration

Ben Miller: Well, congratulations once again. And congratulations on everything. The BAFTA long list. The Oscar long list. I will be sitting there watching it. And if Clodagh gets called, I'll give myself a cheer. Because I've talked to you now, so now I feel like I'm a part of it, even though I'm not.

PORTIA A. BUCKLEY: The reality is that with this campaign, we're all part of it. The word gets spread, it's a very kind of interesting. That's the whole side I didn't know before. And of course it makes sense now.