Q&A: Working Girls, Two-Time Winners, Generational Comedy
Wednesday, July 18, 2012 at 6:00PM It's time to answer reader questions again! Roughly once a week I'll throw up an "Ask Nathaniel" post and then select the questions that trigger something in me. There are often great questions I don't answer because they'd require a whole book. Or a top ten list and we save the listing mostly for other features. Let's go.
CARLOS: I recently came across Working Girl (1988) on TV by chance. I think Griffith and, especially, Weaver are great and the costumes (unintentionally) hilarious when seen today, but what's YOUR opinion on the movie and Griffith? Do you think she could have a comeback? What would it take?
Working Girl is a total time machine for the late 80s. But truth: the costumes were intentionally funny. Or at least those worn by Griffith and the adorable Joan Cusack who were meant to be absurdly dressed. Most readers won't be aware of this because there's no reason to talk about her now, but Melanie Griffith was, for me in the 90s, the equivalent of Swank and the Zeéeeee in the 00s (i.e. actresses who I just can't with). My friends in college used to hide pictures of her in my dorm room to torture me with when I discovered them. Once, a huge poster of Melanie was staring at me from the ceiling when I jumped in bed!
I like the movie well enough but at the time it was wildly overawarded -- one of those AMPAS Christmas crushes that plays so well in the moment but is hardly better than earlier releases that it temporarily shoves out of favor during the crucial nomination period. When I look back at 1988 I'm always pissed that Bull Durham (a summer hit 1 nomination), Running on Empty (a September critical darling, 2 nominations) and Who Framed Roger Rabbit (a June smash with 6 nominations and better than nearly every one of the Best Picture nominees) didn't get various big Oscar props that they deserved. I blame Working Girl because it's the easiest film to blame that year. And I especially blame Griffith because Susan Sarandon's "Annie Savoy", one of the greatest performances of the whole decade, was snubbed to include her!
JAMES: Many lament the onslaught of remakes/reboots/re-imaginings, but what film(s) would actually benefit from a remake? As an example, I ask you to consider Rosemary's Baby. While the acting stands up, much of the rest of the film is pretty creaky. What are your thoughts?
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STEVE: What cinematic, television or literary character do you think should be revisited?
[Remakes, Chris Nolan, and Oscarables AFTER THE JUMP]
The notion that Rosemary's Baby is anything less than perfect is so alarming to me that I'll have to send Ruth Gordon over to knock on your door and peer through your keyhole. You've been warned, James!
As for reboots and revisits and all the rest, I would greatly enjoy the return of Tarzan but I realize I have a Tarzan problem -- most people don't care about the Lord of the Jungle no more. To me he's as wonderful as James Bond only monogamous and with wild animals instead of techno-gadgets. Also: I like naked men.
The other thing I'd like to see remakes of is noirs both because they have such great roles for glamorous actresses and because I think you have to twist them about for modern consumption. Like Double Indemnity is classic but it's not like Body Heat wasn't a worthy filmmaking endeavor. But nobody should ever remake anything just because it's old. If you don't have something fresh to offer, don't do it! I'm talking to you Amazing Spider-Man.
EUROCHEESE: In preparation for the Nolan explosion: What's your favorite Nolan film, your least favorite, and tell us why on both?
I wasn't going to pick this question until I realized I didn't know the answer. Even once I thought it over I still didn't know the answer. I guess I just don't respond all that well to his filmmaking. I nearly always find the films somewhat technically impressive but deeply flawed and I rarely feel anything while watching them. They're all in the B to C+ range for me. My favorite is probably Memento which I still find interesting even if I haven't ever been sure that it transcends its gimmick. I like pieces of The Prestige very much. Batman Begins and The Dark Knight both have indelible moments here and there (love the Scarecrow and the Joker so Nolan does right by the villains. Hoping for the same with Bane) but I'd prefer that they were much shorter and more comprehensible in terms of editing. My least favorite Nolan film is easily Inception which I find thunderously boring and full of itself after the first viewing. The exposition is unbearable on repeat viewings when you don't need it anymore and I think DiCaprio and Page are both not very good in it at all. I literally can't sit through it a third time. I know because I tried.
COREY: Which country (outside of the US) do you believe consistently produces high quality movies?
Right now I'm really into South Korean movies. I think France has always had a pretty good ratio in terms of quantity/quality but as with any country, what we see here in the US might not always be indicative or comprehensive of what is actually on offer. So much hinges on international fame for specific directors. When a country gets "hot" like Romania a few years ago with 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days (my god what a movie that was), people start looking around for other masterpieces. One major film can make a big difference but does it really reflect what's happening in any national cinema?
JOEY: Do you think people can get over the stripper stigma of Magic Mike to maybe snag a screenplay nomination? Or anything?
I do not. Even people who like it all seem kind of like bewildered sheepish that it's actually good. Maybe Matthew McConaughey under a "his year" type of career honor to make the character more palatable for them under the stuffier "award worthy" paradigm.
DERRECK: The world of Magic Mike actually exists. You can actually go and throw dollars at Channing, Matt and Matthew if you like. Which actor/actress would you take with you for the show and some drinks?
I immediately thought of Charlize Theron because she was such a cut up on the campaign circuit last Oscar season and because of her Fatal Attraction sex-ed story at that Actress Roundtable. So definitely Charlize. (She can bring Fassy as her date because he also enjoys a good time) In order to not be a third wheel, I'd also bring Parker Posey along because she's fun, period. And if I'm taking a whole group maybe Juliette Lewis, Miriam Margolyes, and Drew Barrymore.
DAVID: Who is the next actor or actress to win a 2nd Academy Award? 3rd?
This is such a tough one. It could be anyone since second Oscars are hard to come by and you can't always assume that they'll go to flawless actors. Unlike the rest of the internet, I don't really feel bullish on Daniel Day-Lewis winning for Honest Abe this year. I'm currently guessing that the next multiple is Maggie Smith with a third or Philip Seymour Hoffman with a second.
Here are a few people I think are real threats to join the two-time winner list. If they nailed a great part, I don't think the media or AMPAS or the public would be all put out like "but they've already won": Marisa Tomei, Cate Blanchett, and Judi Dench.
ROARK: Does the obligation to respond to a near endless bombardment of questions about future Oscar winners ever make you want to jump out the nearest window?
I have a balcony so if it ever gets to me I can leap off. For the record the only time it really gets to me --it's not like I don't love talking Oscar -- is when I've written something I'm proud of that has nothing to do with Oscar speculation and the comments are all off topic about who might win the Oscar. At these moments I picture a horde of grayish people stumbling slowly down a red carpet moaning "ossscaarrrrrrr" like zombies hungering for brains.
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
BRIAN Z: Do you believe comedies are generational? I mean, as if to say that people only love comedies made for their generation, give or take, and can't truly embrace those that came before? I don't believe this, but have been talking to more casual film fans, whom all think this is true.
I get where this feeling comes from since I don't think comedy is as universal as drama. What people find funny seems to be so much more individualistic or socially determined than what people find moving. I mean you can see this all the time in international cinema. Big hit comedies from one country don't always transfer well. I think some of this has to do with implicit cultural references and assumed knowledge that isn't always passed down from one generation to the next or across borders. Especially verbal comedy. Any jokes that reference celebrities or politicians or other entertainment can immediately date your material or make it slightly head-scratching for a future generation.
But I think this idea is grossly overstated anyway. You can love comedies from any eras if you adjust your antennae a bit. My favorite comedies, for example, tend to be from the 30s which is hardly my generation -- it's not even my parents' generation! But maybe I'm just out of time with comedy? I was recently watching the trailer to that Vince Vaughn, Jonah Hill, Ben Stiller thing The Watch and the theater obviously found it hilarious. I did not. I turned to my friend annoyed and whispered "Shouting is not comedy."
YOUR TURN...
- Do you think comedies from your lifetime are much funnier than the ones that came before?
- Who do you think wins a second or third Oscar soon?
- What's your favorite and least favorite Nolan film?
Reader Comments (33)
I got excited to hear that you actually believe that Tomei might get a second Oscar, but for what? Why do you think that?
The only true Nolan film that I love is Memento (A-), all the other ones range in the same grade scale you said, Nathaniel (I had actually loved The Dark Knight upon its release despite its flaws, but subsequent viewings seemed to have highlighted them to the point of demoting the movie for me).
props for mentioning Susan Sarandon's magnificent turn in Bull Durham, but there was an ever greater one that year from any even more glorious actress: Gena Rowlands in Another Woman, a performance for the ages.
First off, thanks for answering my question. I 100% agree on Working Girl - never understood the wild love for it. A lot of comedy is generational, but physical comedy is hurt much more by the passing of time than dialogue. I still find the little quips between Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant in Charade to be hilarious. Katherine Hepburn's brilliance in pretty much everything comes from a cocky swagger mixed with a sharp-tongued response. One of the keys I've noticed on comedic writing is a comment I seem to hear everywhere - the best comedy writers know their actors' strengths and play to them. It's part of the reason casts are given credit for nailing a good comedy, and writers are unfairly ignored. I'd think writing specifically for an actor would be harder than writing any character you like. It's the reason the same joke told by two different people can feel completely different.
Funnily enough, Inception is my favorite Nolan. Least favorite would be Insomnia.
Also, speaking of Swank and Zee, I actually thought of them as promising actresses during the 90s before they bored the hell out of me in the 2000s. There was just too many expectations for Swank after her unimprovable turn in Boys Dont Cry, and Zee really let me down after being so great in Jerry Maguire ('96) and One True Thing ('98), hell! even in Nurse Betty (2000), where it was all downhill after that
Question of the week; so honored.
1. As a straight male, I have found my love of actresses has been questions from time to time as crushes, but I swear, whenever I see Tomei, I get giddy because I adore her work so much. As for who I see winning another award soon, I find it interesting that those you mentioned all won supporting awards. They aren't lesser awards, despite the lower placement on Oscar programs, but people don't tend to think of them in the same league. Clooney is an Oscar winning actor, but I bet few people remember he's got one on his mantle.
2. Favorite Nolan film is Memento, one of two of his movies I love, along with The Prestige. I feel they both play up their tragic elements very well with Nolan's oppressively somber musings. Least favorite is probably Batman Begins; spectacular moments, but a lot of awkward stabs at comedy and horrendously staged action is sprinkled through out the whole thing. Plus, the whole last act is an editorial mess.
I've always found it interesting that my father (who is obviously older than me) and I prefer comedies from different eras, and not in the way you'd expect. Neither of us go for toilet humor or anything like that, but most of his favorites (Trading Places, Local Hero, Airplane, Blazing Saddles) are from the 70s and 80s, while the majority of my favorites (Sullivan's Travels, My Man Godfrey, It Happened One Night, Adam's Rib) are from the 30s and 40s. I tried to get him to watch The Philadelphia Story once, and he bailed halfway through, claiming that it was literally causing him pain. ::rolls eyes::
So in my case, it seems to be more love of an era than a generational thing. And in both of our defenses, neither of us is interested in seeing The Watch. :-)
I should probably note that I do think Melanie Griffith is good in Working Girl. But not Oscar nom worthy good.
Damn if your jump placement didn't shock me. I was bracing for some statement against my favorite film of all time. Then you put James on warning and the balance of the universe was restored.
You can't even revisit the source novel to go at Rosemary's Baby again. Polanski's adaptation is literal. It's as long as it is because he only cut the most banal description from Ira Levin's prose. I'll steal from you Nathaniel and suggest the only way to make this work would be to do the shot for shot Psycho remake method crossed with casting multiple actors in the same roles. Even then, we're on shaky territory.
Great. Now I need to watch the film again. Thanks a lot. Like I don't have other things to do tonight.
Hoo boy, I'd stir up a whole heap of trouble if it were possible to get Ruth Gordon over here! :)
Thanks for answering my Q.
A movie that I always thought was ripe for a remake is Captain Blood with Errol Flynn (even though I actually love that movie). I've never read the source material, so I can't speak to faithfulness or anything, but the fun of the original movie is sometimes outweighed by the "creakiness," to borrow James's word. And I think Errol Flynn is terrific but not so completely perfect in the role that I can't imagine someone else tackling it from a different angle. My two requirements:
1. The remake would have to play it straight. Swashbuckling is allowed and encouraged, but no Pirates of the Caribbean-style winking at the audience or camping it up.
2. The quality of the swordfighting would have to at least match the original. None of this "bang the swords together to get that neat clinking sound" weaksauce that passes for swordfighting these days.
Do you see Dame Maggie winning a third in supporting or lead (and do you think it will be this year?)
Do you see PSH winning his second for The Master?
I've realized that even the general public thinks that Magic Mike sucks...it's weird. Like, they're like "overall it was a shitty movie aside from the ass" and I'm like uh...why do y'all eat up god awful movies or reboots or remakes, but a indulgent movie that is actually pretty well done doesn't prove to be more than eye candy?
Old comedies use to be funnier- nobody seems to know how to make a Mel Brooks style spoof anymore and of course " The Watch" which look dreadful is trying to tap into "Ghostbusters". "Inception" is my favorite Nolan film.
Agreed re: Working Girl.
What @ the Rosemary's Baby shade.
If film execs were clever enough, they'd go back and rewatch tons of infamously horrendous movies from each decade and try to make them work for now. Not remake the GOOD ones, the fools.
Fave Nolan is The Prestige.
Any pimping for 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days is simply good service to the public.
Charlize and Parker at a male strip club would be ridic fun.
Blanchett is SO a two-time winner, that's been written in the stars.
Even I get annoyed when comments resort to nothing but Oscar obsessing.
I'm so picky with my comedy and humor that I should never be consulted in answering any questions about said topics. I think the answer is a firm NO though.
The Watch looks about as much fun as an ice pick to the eye.
I sped through this.
1. Definitely not. I recently watched Moonstruck for the first time and was pleasantly surprised at how funny it was; I think the problem is that older comedies tend to have more heart than modern comedies. That's really the only distinction I can make.
3. Although I will admit that Christopher Nolan is a talented filmmaker, there's something about his films that end up leaving me "cold." Almost like they're impersonal, if that makes any sense. My least favourite would defintely have to be Insomnia, and my favourite would have to be Following.
With comedy I think it depends a great deal on the film. I have yet to watch either Some Like it Hot or What's Up Doc? with anyone young or old who hasn't found both hilarious.
That's a tough one on who will pick up their next second or third. If someone as esteemed as Julie Christie couldn't be awarded a second for perhaps one of the best performances of the decade when it also would have made Oscar history as the longest period between wins its hard to say who is more deserving. She works so rarely I'm not sure the opportunity will present itself again. The only one who seems venerated enough at this point with something in contention coming soon is Daniel Day Lewis. My personal choices though would be either Vanessa Redgrave or, since she's returned to acting, Jane Fonda although with her already possessing two I think chances are slim.
Tomei's second Oscar was assured for me by her third nomination which meant at some point a Supporting role will catch lightening in a bottle for critics and award bodies and people will see she really is an Oscar caliber actress—I believe her most deserving performance is in The Perez Family.
I'm not a Nolan fan. It would be easier for me to find ten nice things to say about Meryl Streep.
Comedy's personal which is way you're able to laugh hardy at comedy from the 30's.
*why
May I just throw in my shallow two cents here? Marisa Tomei looks heavenly in that picture.
Tarzan huh. I'd like Steve McQueen to make that. 0:)
Working Girl is hardly great cinema, but I'd still take it over Rain Man every day.
I agree with you about Nolan 100%. I feel sorry for him if his dreams really are as generic as the ones in Inception.
I do usually prefer more recent comedies, but it all comes down to what exactly we are talking about. For example, I love Burn After Reading, but hate The Hangover.
1. With respect to comedy I think that general concepts of "funny" can be so steeped in the individual experience that it's only natural for some to gravitate toward the humor of a certain era based on their own personal histories. That, of course, doesn't mean that the films from a particular time are better or worse than others; they simply appeal to a different type of person.
2. I strongly believe that Marisa Tomei could easily win a second Oscar on a fourth or fifth nomination. She strikes me as the type of sturdy supporting actress whose work the Academy wouldn't mind honoring again, especially considering how she's greatly overcome the folklore surrounding her much maligned initial victory.
3. Favorite Nolan film: "The Prestige"
least favorite: "Insomnia," which is ironically quite sleep inducing
I think the proposal about people only liking comedies from their lifetime is incredibly true, but mostly because the people who love shit like The Watch will never, ever sit down and watch a "boring" black & white film, even if it is a stone cold classic like Some Like It Hot or All About Eve or Bringing Up Baby. If they ever saw the really great comedies from the past, they'd find at least one that they love. Funny is funny.
MARISA TOMEI!!! GOD, how I love her! And I totally agree on her second Oscar. Your other choices are also givens, but Dench and Smith need to find the right part, and soon, in order to do so. I would also put Jane Fonda on the list, but her next one won't be competetive, it'll be Lifetime Achievement or Humanitarian. Interesting that you did not mention Kate Winslet.
I think I prefer Nolan when he isn't in blockbuster mode. My two favorites are Memento and The Prestige. I cannot abide the Batman films, which are too long and poorly edited, outside of the villain performances and Michael Caine. I always forget about Insomnia. Inception was a wasted opportunity. It was good, but far from a masterpiece. If you're not convinced about Memento, I really encourage you to watch it again in chronological order. It still works, although it basically becomes a completely different film.
1.- I do, and I ADORE Working Girl.
2.- Winslet and P.S. Hoffman, also Bardem if he gets roles in the US worthy of his mesmerizing talent. Wiest for the third!
3.- I don't like Nolan. I tolerate Memento basically because there's a lot of shirtless Guy Pearce.
I'm loving reading these comments. This is my favorite column now. the more conversation the better. interesting that there are so many Nolan dissenters. Or perhaps that's just because i've scared the NOlan fans away with my indifference?
I'm not a Nolan fanatic like many film fans on other sites, but I will stick up for him for his consistency. I generally abhor any kind of super-hero, comic book franchise and it's literally like pulling teeth for me to go see one in the cinema (I'm probably the only person on earth who hasn't seen The Avengers even though it has garnered substantial critical acclaim. I guess I'll wait for DVD). However, I do admire Nolan for his craftsmanship and his overall serious-minded approach to films such as Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and I always know that I will receive quality, mainstream entertainment for films that in any other director's hand would be churned out aimlessly and mechanically according to the studio head's final wishes. No, I don't think he's a demigod like many assume he is, but I do think he has some major talent. And I agree with Nathaniel regarding Inception. I really liked it upon first viewing, but it becomes increasingly unwatchable after repeat viewings. It's by no means a bad film, and the effects are mindblowing (and also a very good performance by Marion Cotillard), but it's not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination.
I echo the sentiments regarding Marisa Tomei's proposed second Oscar. She's uber talented and always reliable and she's consistently working even in her late forties (when it seems most actresses--Oscar winner or not--seem to disappear or are relegated to supporting roles on cable television series). I believe Cate Blanchett will win another Oscar, too, but it will be in Best Actress. She has so many projects lined up currently and surely one of them will strike. Dench and Smith are good options, too, and they're always working. I've never been a fan of PSH but all actors seem to revere him, so he has enough goodwill to win again. But Two-Time Oscar Winners oftentimes seem so arbitrary. I mean, who in god's name thought Hilary Swank would win again after she virtually disappeared after her first win and then just randomly came roaring back? And now she's back in the same position again. And I believe with all my heart that Kidman will win another lead actress Oscar with the right part.
And I'm sorry, just the thought of remaking Rosemary's Baby is absolutely absurd to me. I think it's Polanski's strongest film by a landslide and one of the greatest psychological suspense films ever made. And endlessly watchable.
As far as comedies go, I can understand the mindset that comedies are "generational". Mean Girls came out when I was in high school and I could totally relate to the high-school class system ingenuously dissected by Tina Fey in the film and is probably why it's still so watchable today. At the same time, like others have mentioned, I love the classics like All About Eve and Some Like it Hot, too. Comedy is such a matter of taste, that it's really hard to pinpoint what makes us laugh. I've never been able to get into the Will Ferrell/Adam Sandler/[insert former SNL cast member turned movie star here] genre of comedy currently polluting our movie screens. Everything is just so recycled in all those films that I just don't understand how people repeatedly pay $10+ every time to see those films.
1. This question reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately. I've sort of given up on seeing new comedies in theaters. I don't know what it is but movies like Bridesmaids or The Hangover seem so unfunny to me when I see them with an audience but then movies like Pineapple Express or In Bruges are utterly delightful when I see them on DVD. Are the latter two better than the former? Perhaps. But so many respectable people liked Bridesmaids that I start to think it's an issue with me and the theater audience. Older movies are funny no matter where I see them and it's always a treat to see something like Bringing Up Baby with an audience and hear other people screaming with laughter.
2. I adore Marisa Tomei and she always makes me feel proud because we went to the same high school (at different times but still)! I think for sure Cate Blanchett gets another Oscar and I'll throw Nicole Kidman in there, too. She can be so smart about choosing roles. I'd love it if Michael Caine won a third.
3. Favorite Nolan film is Memento and least favorite is Batman Begins. So happy to know others had problems with the action editing crap.
I love this column, too!!
Oh, and about remaking films...I'm 100% for studios churning out original, fresh films and am totally dismayed about the constant rebooting and remakes (Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? REALLY?) I will agree that if remakes must be made, it should be certain films that haven't been wildly seen and/or weren't originally critically well-received. For instance, I recently watched a film called Joy House directed by Rene Clement and starring Alain Delon and a very young Jane Fonda. It' s about a French playboy who's wanted for murder who stakes out at this mysterious woman's house in the South of France with her cousin (who both have their own motives for their new captive). It's a good thriller with some smart dashes of comedy, but it is very outdated. I think it could be amazing if a great auteur like Steve McQueen or Darren Aronofsky or (hell, since we're talking about 4 Months why not Cristian Mungiu, who is obviously very good at building up a sense of claustrophobia throughout his films) remake it?
Say what you will about Griffith (lord knows I have), but she had quite a fantastic streak with Body Double, Something Wild and Working Girl, all of which played to her (albeit limited) strengths. (The only film of hers since in which I found her impressive is Nobody's Fool.) Incidentally, were the 80s not one of the most fruitful decades for great -- and great romantic -- comedy?
Speaking of Griffith (and romantic comedy), I read she was considered for the lead role in Six Days, Seven Nights, which had a terrible script but a terrific premise that seems so ripe for a magical, throwback screwball comedy. (The only saving grace was the strong chemistry between Ford and Heche, a sharp and underrated comedienne...and actress *period*.) Anyway, if Hollywood insists on remaking films, at least they could do so with properties like Six Days, Seven Nights that have great potential not fully realized the first time around.
P.S. I've met Drew Barrymore, who's not all that pleasant. (Martha Plimpton, on the other hand, I know would be a fun tag-along to a strip club.)
I'll stick up for Working Girl, too, and I loved Griffith in it. She was hardly the nominee who bumped Sarandon--I think that was Weaver in Gorillas in the Mist.
Okay, I'll go on record as saying that The Dark Knight is the most inexplicably praised and monetarily rewarded movie of the last ten years. There. I did like The Prestige however. And I guess Memento.
I like Marisa Tomei but still can't get over Judy Davis losing her Oscar. Oh what the hell, I'm sure Judy Davis doesn't really care at this point. Can we cast both of them in some sort of buddy comedy/creepy thriller?
Yes, Cate Blanchett and George Clooney will win Oscars again in the leading category. It's inevitable. It's so hard to pick non-absolute-stars who will win again. Marisa and Judi are good choices. A real off the wall choice might be someone like Goldie Hawn. I could see her nailing a wacky Auntie kind of role in her dotage. Ditto Diane Keaton.
I'd really love to see Marisa Tomei winning the second... She was great and deserved on both In The Bedroom and The Wrestler!
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