Podcast: Smackdown Companion 1979
Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 10:23PM 
You've read the new Supporting Actress Smackdown. Now hear its companion podcast. Our panel widens its view from the supporting nominees to talk about the unique cinematic landscape of the late 1970s, the women's lib movement and concurrent movie gender wars, and which movies give the best period punch and which we've misremembered completely.
Host: Nathaniel R
Special Guests: KM Soehnlein, Kristen Sales, Bill Chambers, and StinkyLulu.
Contents
- 00:01 Introductions and memory vs. reality w/ Breaking Away
- 03:20 Gender Wars of 1979. Misogynistic or merely non-coddling and complicated?
- 09:00 Cynicism and Optimism in Starting Over and Manhattan, which is particularly self-critical and discomforting
- 15:50 Contextualizing the movies. 1979 versus what was to come with shifting tastes. Do people still make movies about "how we live now?"
- 21:00 Meryl Streep's command of subtext and Kramer vs. Kramer as a film
- 28:00 The oddity of Starting Over's comedy - we recommend
- 31:30 Movies we wish we had had to watch for the Smackdown: Alien & All That Jazz and non-nominated supporting actresses
- 36:45 Final random observations: valium, money in 1979, and new actors who weren't yet famous
- 39:00 Meryl Streep then vs Meryl Streep now. Of course we spend the last five minutes on Meryl Streep.
And because we joke about it - Here is Candice Bergen's off-key hit single "Better Than Ever" from Starting Over.
Please to enjoy and continue the conversation in the comments. You can listen at the bottom of this post or download from iTunes tomorrow. THE NEXT SMACKDOWN IS AT THE END OF JUNE. WE'LL BE LOOKING AT 1948 SO ADJUST YOUR QUEUES ACCORDINGLY.
Reader Comments (23)
Brilliant podcast.
I love and fully support the shout-outs to Veronica Cartwright and the amazing Ann Reinking.
Nathaniel, Kramer or Terms of Endearment? Which one makes you cry the most? Or is it maybe The Color Purple? My mom got a migraine after that one.
I don't thionk Cartwright was seriously considered just like in 87 fot TWOE,only over the years has Aliens characters become more appreciated.
Peggy Sue -- for whatever reason I've never been all that moved by The Color Purple the way most are (though it sure made a good Best Shot episode) but Kramer vs Kramer kills me with tears. worse than most movies so it's really no contest among those three.
Mark -- no, she wasn't seriously considered either year. That's genre bias for you with awards voters and with the general populace really too (yes, they like genre films more than awards bodies but even random people will look at you funny if you suggest that Veronica Cartwright's freakouts in Witches of Eastwick & Alien are better acting than [insert competent biopic acting here]. I'm not sure why this is among actors themselves - surely they know how difficult it is to be tonally accurate and inspired within the heightened genres but when it comes time to vote on their own they always go for the generic "respectable" types of genres such as Drama, History Epic, Comedies with a Dramatic Heart (Not a Silly One) and Message Movies. Sometimes these genres are worthy, sure. don't get me wrong. but it shouldn't be a default thing.
That's a thing I always notice,no one is going to tell me that Pfieffer didn't deserve a spot in 92 or Ricci in 93 hell I even l loved Alice Krige in First Contact,if an actor is right on point as to the tone of the film they are in and their role within it they should be considered,there are some great perfs in Horror or Sci fi that have been overlooked over the years I believe judging should be based on the point I made and not if it's in an already annointed movie or a general concensus perforamance.
Cartwright was aces in TWOE they nommed Anne Rmasey in 87 so they were thinking farther than their usual remit.
Kramer was one of the first "adult" movies I recall seeing (on tv) and it had a big affect on me, probably because the Justin Henry character was dealt with not as a throwaway or cute comic relief, but as deserving of exploration as the adults in the film. There aren't many films where the concerns of such a young child are handled with that insight and sensitivity, though Beasts of the Southern Wild comes to mind (Mad Men, too, though that is a tv series).
As a child, I remember stumbling upon Kramer vs. Kramer one night before I had any idea about Meryl or the movie's pedigree. In the end I desperately wanted Meryl to keep the child. Perhaps I was imagining myself being away from my mother. I revisited the movie again once, but I don't want to watch it again because of that childhood feeling. I feel that she was making that choice either out of a sense of duty to do the right thing (because of her previous abandonment of the child) or she wanted to paint herself as a martyr of sorts (and ultimately the better parent) by sacrificing the one thing the is universally and traditionally considered most valuable to women.
Holocaust is available on Youtube. As much as I love Streep in it, Rosemary Harris is the unsung hero IMHO.
I first encountered Dennis Quaid's abs in Postcards from the Edge.
I liked the "shitting fear" quote from Kristin,i always called it a "PURE FEAR" performance but i'll use that from now on.
Something tells me that if the Hemingway performance had been appraised 10 years ago (not by this particular sample of judges but overall), she'd have many more hearts. Goes to show you how opinions about acting, evaluations of works, and public narratives change over time.
For example, the trajectory of Meryl's career of late, I'd say, has added value to performances in her repertoire like Joanna Kramer. Then she was creating something new, acting instinctually, and giving us what we desperately want from her today.
On the flip side, it's easy to see how Hemingway's work in Manhattan has fallen in estimation given the tipping point in opinions about Woody Allen, the man. That part, perhaps more than any other, symbolizes his creepiness. One year it's a "master class in subtlety," the next it reads "a little flat" or "very good despite Allen/the script/the film" (to paraphrase).
I notice some of the icy remarks about modern Meryl compared to 78 - 83 Meryl.
What strikes me here is how each of the five nominees was in a contemporary film, as were most of the also-rans. In the last fifteen years, at least half the winners were in a historical pieces. And these five weren't just contemporary, but demanded the film address the times. I'm a little amused that three of the year's big Oscar films' titles (Starting Over, Breaking Away, and Chapter Two) basically have the same meaning, despite having different subjects. They were on the same page about saying something.
"Comedies with a Dramatic Heart (Not a Silly One)"
Say goodbye to Rose Byrne...
What a great discussion. I particularly enjoyed what everyone said about movies from the 70s--the films seem more concerned with characters and their psychology than today. There just seemed to be more human feeling in the stories that were being told then on-screen.
Nathaniel, I highly recommend Promises In the Dark if you can find the DVD. Marsha Mason is very moving as a physician who has to make the ultimate decision concerning her patient, played by Kathleen Bellter. Very downbeat but worthwhile.
I also appreciate the shoutouts for Valerie Harper, who is so great in Chapter Two. Her scene about how women are described as they age is tremendous.
Hmmmm...my Pandora is playing Bette Midler's The Rose as I type this.
I love how the conversation always included human behavior in relation to the characters and the zeitgeist of that era. It made me realize that I miss having American movies that reflect our current reality and our societal state (isn't that what Spike Lee used to do?). That is why I love (well-made) documentaries so much for I believe they can shine a light on who we are now and give us some kind of perspective. When I look back at my recent favorite movies, A Separation, The Act of Killing and NIghtcrawler are great examples of showing the status quo in creative, complex ways.
sorry, typo, it's Beller
@Mr. Goodbar "always included human behavior in relation to the characters and the zeitgeist of that era"
So much so that one of the titles, Being There, translates to the German word for this concept, dasein. (The idea doesn't have a direct English translation.)
Candice Bergen All the way, comic genius!
This concept about genres makes me wonder how the HELL Sigourney Weaver got nominated for "Aliens" -- and in the same year as Kathleen Turner for a comedy ("Peggy Sue Got Married"). Not to distract from 1979, but I'd love to know your thoughts on that.
Very enjoyable discussion.
I'm glad it was mentioned how studied Meryl has become. She is still a fine performer but rewatching Kramer for this reminded me how much more relaxed and natural she was at the beginning of her career. I don't think that is a rarity, Bette Davis had her mannerisms when she was young but they certainly became more pronounced as she moved on through the years. Same for Kate Hepburn, Glenn Close, and most other performers who have sustained careers, even the great naturalistic Stanwyck had patterned moves as time passed. It made me miss that Meryl.
Now that it was mentioned it is odd that Valerie Harper missed out on a nom since she received good reviews and Marsha Mason received a nomination for basically playing herself in the film which was a popular success.
Loved this discussion, especially the observations about Hemingway/Manhattan. I haven't seen all of the films, but I can't imagine I'd argue with your/Oscar's outcome, Meryl is simply brilliant in the film.
My feelings about Tracy's character in Manhattan, or rather how it is directed/written and acted is that she is not the voice of reason or the mature one amidst cynical New Yorkers. She has the voice and delivery of an 8 year-old, the body of a 14 year-old and the eloquence of those children who say interesting things not because they have been thought-out or experienced, but because they are reacting in contrast to something more complex than they are capable of understanding, and since it comes out in an unfiltered/non-judgemental way, it seems like they are being wise and mature.
I think Then-Meryl would be surprised that Now-Meryl is still relevant in quite a huge way. Remeber the woman thought she'd retire at the age of 40. That was 25 years ago.
It's a wonderful gift she's still here, even though time has changed.
Time changes for everyone. It will be interesting to see where someone like Jennifer Lawrence will be in 40 years.
Great discussion. Brian was hilarious!
Nathaniel - have you thought of doing Best Nominated Supporting Actress performances for a Tuesday Top Ten like you did for lead actor and actress?