Smackdown '85: Anjelica, Amy, Meg, Margaret and Oprah
Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 11:07PM Presenting the Supporting Actresses of '85. It was all scandal all the time at this colorful party. There were three much gossiped about women (a mafia princess, a drunk promiscuous entertainer, and a delusional pregnant nun) and two stubborn women who were just NOT having either the gossip or the abusive and cheating men around them. It was the about appreciating the color purple (Oprah & Margaret), seeing red (Amy & Meg), and embracing jet black comedy (Anjelica).
THE NOMINEES
from left to right: Avery, Huston, Madigan, Tilly, and Winfrey
Oscar celebrated newcomers in 1985 with a shortlist composed entirely of first timers. All five actresses were relatively inexperienced (as Oscar lists go) having made less than ten films each so no overdue conversations were to be had. One of them (Oprah Winfrey) was even making her film debut though the eventual winner (Anjelica Huston) was already Hollywood royalty, being the daughter of the film titan directing her and the girlfriend of the superstar headlining her Best Picture nominated vehicle.
Notable women who Oscar didn't nominate were Globe nominees Kelly McGillis (Witness) and Sonia Braga (Kiss of the Spider Woman), BAFTA nominees Judi Dench (Wetherby) and Tracey Ullman (Plenty), and BAFTA winner Rosanna Arquette (Desperately Seeking Susan)... who was very much a leading lady but you know how awards season is! Other key supporting players that attracted critical attention and/or movie fans in 1985 were Molly Ringwald and Ally Sheedy (The Breakfast Club), Demi Moore and Mare Winningham (St Elmo's Fire), Isabella Rossellini and Helen Mirren (White Nights), Madonna (Desperately Seeking Susan), Lea Thompson (Back to the Future), Laura Dern (Mask), Ann Wedgeworth (Sweet Dreams), and Mieko Harada (Ran).
from left to right: Zehetner, Virtel, Nathaniel R, Nazemian, Morgan
Here to talk about these five nominated turns, in reverse alphabetical order: Actress Nora Zehetner (Creative Control, Brick), comedian/writer Louis Virtel (Billy on the Street, Throwing Shade), your host Nathaniel R (The Film Experience), novelist/producer Abdi Nazemian ("The Authentics" and Call Me By Your Name), and writer/director Michelle Morgan (It Happened in LA). And now it's time for the main event...
1985
SUPPORTING ACTRESS SMACKDOWN
Margaret Avery as "Shug Avery" in The Color Purple
Synopsis: A boozy chanteuse stirs a (sexual?) awakening in her lover's meek wife, while attempting to reconcile with her preacher father
Stats: Then 41 yrs old, 8th film, 1st and only nomination. 36½ minutes of screen time (or 25% of running time).
Michelle Morgan: She is great. Like everyone else in the movie. She has a ton of range and charisma... but yeah, it's all about Oprah. ♥♥♥
Abdi Nazemian: I hadn’t seen this film since I was a kid, and given some of what I’ve read since then, I was expecting Margaret Avery’s Shug Avery - seriously, can we talk about how she and her character share a last name? - not to embody the complicated sexuality the character possesses in the book. I was happily surprised to find that while the movie may be somewhat tame in that department, it definitely explores Shug and Celie’s sexuality. The scene where Shug brings Celie out of her shell and kisses her is so beautiful. Avery perfectly embodies a woman with so much life force that she helps another woman find her own light. Her musical numbers are epic, her church scene is a total showstopper, and she helps bring vibrant new energy to the film when she enters. If she didn’t have to compete against the big O, she’d be the one for me. In the meantime, I’ll be quoting “See Daddy, sinners have souls too” whenever I can ♥♥♥♥
Louis Virtel: Margaret Avery plays brassy singer Shug Avery who, after introducing herself to Miss Celie with a cruel barb, helps her find herself. Shug's climactic number (famously dubbed by Tata Vega) is as rollicking as you expect, but I found that the character’s two defining personality traits — no-nonsense sass and tender affection — didn’t cohere as much as I wanted. Avery gives a spirited performance that is always interesting but never quite powerful. ♥♥♥
Nora Zehetner: I loved her. To me it should have been between her and Oprah for the win. I loved the scene with her and Whoopi in the bedroom kissing. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: When I first saw The Color Purple I vastly preferred her performance to Oprah Winfrey's though now I feel they're nearly equal. I propose that it's only her subsequent fade from fame that has allowed people to forget just how fine she is here. From her unforgettable mean-drunk intro ("You sure is ugly!") to the way she carefully delineates the rubbed raw spaces just between Shug's public pride and her private pain. It's a shame she didn't do her own singing and that the sexuality is vague, but everything else is admirable. Bless her for her beautiful underplaying in the scene that gives the movie its title; it's as if she knows that Spielberg and his crew are already doing so much that any more from her would be overkill. ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "I thought she was the real bruised heart of the movie, and was surprised that I have never seen her since." - Rob (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥)
Actress earns 22 ❤s
Anjelica Huston as "Maerose Prizzi" in Prizzi's Honor
Synopsis: The disgraced granddaughter of a mafia don schemes her way back into the family when her ex-husband takes up with a mysterious woman
Stats: Then 34 yrs old, 9th official film, 1st of three nominations. 20½ minutes of screen time (or 16% of running time).
Michelle Morgan: Another one of my favorite actors. Anjelica is fantastic in everything, but this movie is just kinda schticky. And I really like John Huston as a filmmaker. But I just don't think this has aged very well. Across the board the accents feel clunky and forced. She is for sure the standout, though, even though it's not my favorite of hers. ♥♥♥
Abdi Nazemian: I am obsessed with Anjelica Huston as a person, and in The Grifters, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Manhattan Murder Mystery, 50/50, Transparent, and so many other roles. She SO deserves to be an Oscar winner, but did it have to be for this movie? Eight Oscar nominations?! Maybe voters were in a prestige fog based on names like Huston, Nicholson and Turner, all of whom have made much better films than this without getting nominated (Kathleen Turner in Body Heat, anyone?) Anjelica is the best thing in it, but it’s hard not to feel that this performance should have been an introduction to her career, rather than the role that won her the gold. Her win is super fun for Oscar trivia nerds, though, not that I am one. It’s not like I get a tingle of excitement when I think about how she was the first person directed to an Oscar by her father, or that her win made the Hustons the first family with three generations of Oscar winners. Anyway, one of those fun facts would still remain true if she won for something else. And this spot desperately belongs to another Italian-American who routinely tested her father’s limits. ♥♥
Louis Virtel: Anjelica Huston gives a delicious and vulpine performance in “Prizzi’s Honor." You crave her humor and sexuality; her glances, outfits, and affection for sex on rugs are iconic. After the movie’s over, you question whether the part is too slight for an Oscar, but the memory of her cool factor stays with you. She’s the best version of Kim Basinger in “L.A. Confidential”: an enigmatic sexpot we reward for distracting us from the parade of hard-bitten white dudes. ♥♥♥♥
Nora Zehetner: I was able to watch her scenes but it is difficult to fully judge out of context [Editor's note: the movie itself is not available online]. But she looked amaaaaaazing accepting her Oscar. ♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: From her very first scene, that unforgettable face and statuesque glamour framed exquisitely by that pink and black Donfeld costume, Anjelica is giving us Screen Presence for the Gods. No wonder she was the frontrunner months before her competitors showed up (summer release). Huston fuses the quasi-tragic rebellious pride of a "fallen" woman with slyly comic erotic vagrancy -- that scene "right here on the Oriental" is bliss. That said she isn't quite as brilliant as I'd remembered. Her move into vengeful plotter for the second half of her scenes isn't half as thrilling as what came before. I love that bit where Maerose admits to preferring color to shapes in her design work. Anjelica as an actress is like that, too. The shaping of this character isn't perfect but the volume and saturation of her coloring sure is. ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "The most interesting part but Maerose’s character arc feels like it runs in reverse, at least to my taste" - Dave (Reader average: ♥♥♥)
Actress earns 19 ❤s
Amy Madigan as "Sunny" in Twice in a Lifetime
Synopsis: A financially struggling young wife becomes enraged when her parents split up
Stats: Then 35 yrs old, 6th film, 1st and only nomination. 25½ minutes of screen time (or 25% of running time).
Michelle Morgan: Gah. This film. It was such a downer and I felt like all Amy Madigan did was yell at everybody. She's a strong actress and she definitely has presence but why this film was the subject of any Academy appreciation is completely beyond me. Gene Hackman is one of my absolute favorite actors and it was hard to watch him play a character that I so despised. Sorry not sorry. ♥♥
Abdi Nazemian: I love me some Amy Madigan, and she has some nice moments here, but overall I found her performance a little overdone at times, and the movie very dated (this from someone who finds Jean Harlow films totally modern). I didn’t even think she was the best supporting actress in this movie – I’d give that honor to Ann-Margaret, who brings so much vulnerability to her role – let alone in this epic year of film, which included legendary supporting performances from Sonia Braga, Molly Ringwald, Ally Sheedy, Madeline Kahn, and Madonna (yes, you read that right). Speaking of the young pop icon, my mind wandered during this film to Madonna watching Madigan’s performance and deciding she’d deal with her snub by borrowing this character’s haircut and Daddy issues for her Papa Don’t Preach video years later, which, you know, changed the world. ♥♥
Louis Virtel: With a constant sneer and deflated pompon hair (very “Papa Don’t Preach”), Amy Madigan plays a frustrated daughter who, more than any other character, prevents the wilting couple at the center of the film from moving on with their lives. Her histrionics are sometimes realistic and sometimes just grating, especially during a bar confrontation that verges on a total “Mean Streets” melee. Her attachment to her family unit is understandable and, at times, touching — but it’s Hackman, Burstyn, and Ann-Margret who seem most human in this well-observed dramedy. ♥♥♥
Nora Zehetner: I thought she was good in the role and there's nothing I really would have changed. But I wasn't sure that the role itself screamed Oscar nomination. She was wonderful, though. ♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: In the context of a better movie Madigan’s perpetually rankled Sunny (a brilliant name for a character who is closer to Thunder Clouds) might not have registered. But history is full of nominations for roles that shake up otherwise forgettable movies. Though she definitely sticks out, in an odd sort of way her performance is exactly like the movie itself: continually distracted, lurching from comic to dramatic moments without a firm game plan, and filled with bits of exciting spontaneity inbetwixt overacted moments. My favorite beat is a throwaway where her she's exuding hostility and shouting her head off in the local grocery store. The punchline is amazing: she goes blank / silent when she can't quite fathom how cheerful the checkout clerk is in her presence. ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Angry, but tender, and spry in her reactions to the whole family" - Nicholas (Reader average: ♥♥)
Actress earns 14 ❤s
Meg Tilly as "Sister Agnes" in Agnes of God
Synopsis: A pregnant nun, with less than a full grasp on reality, struggles to remember how a dead baby ended up in the wastebasket of her room
Stats: Then 25 yrs old, 7th film, 1st and only nomination. 38 minutes of screen time (or 39% of running time).
Michelle Morgan: Throughout my life I have pretty much exclusively associated Meg Tilly with this performance. As a child, this film was very confusing. As an adult, this film is very confusing. But I'll save my film critiques for the podcast. Meg has some truly great moments here. And physically embodies the character in such a degree that it obviously stuck with me. I really wish that her performance was a tad more subtle, though. ♥♥♥
Abdi Nazemian: It takes a great actress to deliver lines like “I have to attractive to God,” “Suffering is beautiful and I want to be beautiful,” and “She says my whole body’s a mistake” without going too far. Tilly manages to stay grounded in a movie that often feels like it’s spinning in many different directions, and amidst performances that are much bigger than hers. After seeing the film, her performance, her essence, is what stays with me. I just wish the movie itself came together more successfully to help the performance land emotionally the way it should. I’m giving her an extra heart because she’s a novelist now, and I have an affinity for anyone who writes books, and because I’m obsessed with her sister, who I would do anything to see in this role. I mean, could you imagine what a sequel that would be? Agnes of Godder starring Jennifer Tilly! It’s never too late for a reboot ♥♥♥♥
Louis Virtel: Agnes of God sets itself up as an interesting mystery and then concludes with an eye-roll of a final act. Maybe it made more sense in the play version? I don’t know. Meg Tilly plays a novice nun who’s either crazy or actually possessed by God, and her combination of virginal sighs and weird intensity make her worthy of Jane Fonda’s intrigue. Though Tilly’s asthmatic moments earned her the nomination, the movie’s shortcomings prevent her character from ever being a believable, three-dimensional person. It’s a glorified (deified?) “Law & Order: SVU” witness role. ♥♥♥
Nora Zehetner: The first thing I wrote down in my notes in regards to her, and kept underlining as the movie went on, was luminous. She was the picture of innocence. There were some batshit scenes that would have been very complicated to pull off and I felt she nailed them. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: If Oscars were handed out for degree of difficulty, surely Meg would have taken this one. In fairness within the context of this particular film (don't know about its original incarnation on stage) this is an impossible role. She has to juggle deep repression, childwoman stunted intelligence and innocence, sexual shame, reluctant exposition, and religious extremism, all while keeping you guessing about how much she knows or remembers or understands because the screenplay favors mysterious motivations and clues above cohesive characterizations. Meg is memorable in some scenes but iffy in others. ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "It’s a conundrum – is Sister Agnes’ youthful naivete on full display due to Tilly’s superior acting, or because Tilly gave a youthful, naïve performance? I opt for the latter." - James (Reader average: ♥♥½)
Actress earns 19½ ❤s
Oprah Winfrey as "Sofia" in The Color Purple
Synopsis: A large woman barrels through life with stubborn force until her husband and then society begin to beat her down
Stats: Then 31 yrs old, debut film, 1st and only acting nomination. 23 minutes of screen time (or 15% of running time).
Michelle Morgan: Spielberg has a way of directing actors that is unrivaled, in my opinion. The film in general is populated with so many brilliant performances that it's hard to pick the best. But she really shines here. Watching her onscreen is absolutely mesmerizing. Whether it's the scene in town where she's defending her children, or she's confronting Whoopi about telling Harpo to beat her...she's such an amazingly strong character. And you can feel Oprah, deeply, in those scenes. She really brought herself to some extremely vulnerable places and there isn't one false note. I personally love the end scene when she tells the old man to hush up. Sofia home now...things changing around here...Sofia home now. Fucking awesome. This performance gets all my love. ♥♥♥♥♥
Abdi Nazemian: I MEAN! The only good thing I can think of to say about Oprah not winning for this stunning performance is that, if she won, she may have decided to become a character actress instead of becoming OPRAH. Am I giving her five stars because I don’t dare give Oprah anything less than a perfect score, or because I want a free trip to Australia? No, I’m giving her five stars because she manages to make me laugh, make me cheer, make me cry, make me hope, and even make me forget I’m watching Oprah, all in one movie. Also, here’s something Oprah said after the movie’s release: “Whoopi Goldberg for the Oscar! Who's her competition? Meryl Streep? I don't care if Meryl break-dances on water, this year it's Whoopi.” I mean, could you love her more? And can you believe both Whoopi and Meryl lost? I’m in for Meryl’s take on Breakin’: Waterworld Boogaloo, in for Oprah the Oscar winner, and in for Oprah the POTUS. That’s happening, right? ♥♥♥♥♥
Louis Virtel: Of all the nominated performances, Winfrey gets the most dynamic arc and plays it to the hilt: Sophia goes from self-possessed and irascible to despondent and heartbreaking. Every step along the way is filled with color, grace, and humanity thanks to Winfrey, who never for a second feels like the superstar we know. This performance goes beyond charm finds vivacious humanity in Sophia's firm moral code. ♥♥♥♥♥
Nora Zehetner: OPRAH! God she was amazing. And what an arc! She was so sexy and self-confident in the beginning, which is what made it so difficult to watch her spirit broken. I was particularly aware of how well she used her body in the movie - really inhabiting the character. You can literally see the weight of the world on her shoulders after her time in jail. She was absolutely my vote for best supporting actress. ♥♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: I've always felt like such a curmudgeon about this performance. It's not that Oprah isn't, well, Oprah and thus fabulous on principle. It's just that the character arc doesn't quite work. Her visible inexperience is actually a gift in the early scenes where Spielberg has her working in a fairly broad style. She's an absolute blast marching down dirt roads with arms swinging, putting "Mister" in his place with smug pride, and generally forceful about getting what's hers (including Harpo). When things begin to sour she's thrillingly primal... at first. But in the back-half of the movie, where she becomes a shell of her former self, she's much duller. More psychological nuance would have made this an all-timer performance instead of just an exciting debut. ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Oprah stole the show. Sophia's character arc strikes me as a bit unrealistic, but Oprah's gusto makes it the most satisfying." - Leon (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥)
Actress earns 28 ❤s
The Oscar Went To... Anjelica Huston
THE SMACKDOWN disagrees...
and hands the golden idol to Oprah Winfrey for that moment in time between her breakthrough (The Color Purple, December 18th 1985) and true superstardom ("The Oprah Winfrey Show", September 8th, 1986).
Would you have chosen similarly?
Want more? There's a companion podcast, too, where we discuss the films and more '85 pleasures in further detail
Thank you for attending!
Previous Smackdowns ICYMI: 1941, 1948, 1952, 1954, 1963, 1964, 1968, 1973, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1984, 1989, 1995, 2003 and 2016 (prior to those 30+ Smackdowns were hosted @ StinkyLulu's old site)
NEXT UP? We'll be talking the 1944 film year in October with the Smackdown on November 5th.
Reader Comments (57)
1985- when supporting actress was indeed supporting actress... I hate all the category manipulation now days.
I am teamHuston and I think the performance is flawless. She embodies femme fatale sophistication in a way you see only in Lauren Bacall. She's not playing the killer femme fatale -she's playing the rich cool femme fatale. This is a masterclass in stylization.
I'm as happy to be the quote for Madigan as I am sad she didn't pull more support from the panel. Either way, this was a fun read and I'm excited to hear the podcast tomorrow.
I echo Nick's sentiment that Madigan's performance is underappreciated.
Thanks for using my quote!
Oprah Winfrey, as Sofia in “The Color Purple”, is introduced comically. She comes charging up to Celie's house as if she were Foghorn Leghorn. That she creates a complex, compelling character despite the comic music that accompanies several of her scenes, and becomes the full embodiment of the themes of the movie are due to Winfrey's commitment. Starting off as the sassy scold, through her humiliation and imprisonment, then finally the sassy scold again, she wins our sympathy and respect. 5 hearts
As Shug, Margaret Avery's introduction as a funny, loud mouthed drunk, accompanied (like Winfrey) by comic music doesn't prepare us for the deep, emotional character she brings to life. Though she controls her desires and her destiny, she longs for the acceptance and security of the community from which her father has banished her. Avery, like Winfrey, creates a complex woman whose story commands our respect. 5 hearts
“Twice in a Lifetime” has Lifetime movie right in the title. As the angry, unforgiving daughter to Gene Hackman's philanderer, Amy Madigan is given a role that seems to be her specialty. (I'll never forget her face in the audience when the Oscars gave a special award to Elia Kazan). She's fine as an ordinary young woman in the background, helping out with her sister's wedding or having dinner with the family. When her big scenes come and she's thrust to the foreground she's quite amateurish and I didn't believe a word she uttered. I don't get this nomination. 1 heart
Maerose Prizzi is , of course, the catalyst for the whole plot of “Prizzi's Honor”. Her sly, knowing manipulation of the men in her life, her supposed superiors, is quite amusing. She literally talks out of the side of her mouth and delivers her lines with a ghoulish glee. Her scene with Nicholson right there on the oriental seals it for me. 4 hearts
Meg Tilly: I just couldn't bring myself to rewatch “Agnes of God”. Maybe I should have skipped “Twice in a Lifetime” instead.
Based on merit Oprah was robbed. But Life had other plans for her that made this loss not such a big deal in hindsight. Huston was the most recent Oscar winner in the Best Actress lineup for the 63rd ceremony. Pa-pa-pa-permanent damage.
Glad to see O with the win, she is really a fabulous actress with great vulnerability as so many pointed out! Though it is wonderful Huston has on Oscar (but it should've been two years later for The Dead!)
In my mind it's Avery who's miles and leagues ahead everyone else here. The way she imbues her role with tenderness and aplomb sexual appeal is extraordinary. She's a woman you fall in love with just as much as Celie does.
Happy with the Oprah win though, who would be second in line for me. I like Huston's work more than the years seem to have agreed with her win.
I still say Margaret Avery should have won. That scene where she reunites with her father, I've never seen a performer so in tuned physically emotionally and spiritually. It was like a religious experience.
Oh my god!! Nora Zehetner!!
I paused an episode of Gilmore Girls just last night because I thought it was Nora Zehetner. It wasn’t. But according to IMDb, her first screen credit is on an episode of Gilmore Girls as “Girl in Hall.”
How rubbish was that Best Actor roster without Julia and Daniels and maybe Hackman simply cos I love him in anything and felt he did really well in this role but Gene was struggling in the 80's till Mississsippi Burning cam along.
Well one Oprah but Avery's my pick.
What a great read. I’m sure it helps that this involved two genuine superstars (Huston and Oprah) which kept me interested despite **ducks** having not seen any of the movies. (I realize how crazy this is especially because of how much I loved TCP book).
I especially enjoyed reading the trivia and amusing asides from Abdi Nazemian. Great panelist! Slightly surprised/miffed that not everyone on the panel was able to watch every movie (this is the time-honored smack down!). Nonetheless, great work all around, everyone.
I'd add Katharine Helmond to that legendary count, but take away Sheedy and Ringwald (sorry, I view The Breakfast Club as a 5-leader, with only the authority figure as supporting).
Nicks gotta stick together! Madigan gets my vote here.
I hated to miss out on this Smackdown but though I'd seen all the performances it was some time ago and life got in the way and I wasn't able to revisit to refresh my memory of them.
I love Anjelica Huston and I'm glad she's an Oscar winner but I would have much rather have seen that happen for The Grifters than this film which I didn't care for.
I agree with Abdi that Ann-Margret's performance was the one that should have gotten a nomination in Twice in a Lifetime if anyone did not Amy Madigan. But then again Amy's a fine actress who rarely gets acknowledgement so at least she has this nomination on her sheet.
Of the nominated actresses I would have gone for Oprah as well. She's a fearsome presence in Color Purple. So I'm glad she took the Smackdown.
But in an open field she wouldn't be my choice though her nomination is certainly worthy. To me there was no one who could match the brilliance of what Madeline Kahn did as Mrs. White in Clue.
My ballot would run this way:
Linda Hunt-Silverado
Madeline Kahn-Clue-Winner
Maggie Smith-A Room with a View
Lea Thompson-Back to the Future
Oprah Winfrey-The Color Purple
With Sonja Braga in Kiss of the Spider Woman just missing.
I can't believe no one gave five stars to Margaret Avery. And I don't understand Michelle's comentary on her performance, can't she be just a little objective and make a comment actually on Margaret's performance like her fellow panelist? It is such a beloved representation of sexuality and rendemption, hope she could say a little more on Avery in the comments.
Smackdowns give me chocolate cake / Whiskey straight up / Kidman film festival levels of joy.
Papa Don't Preach didn't show up until the summer of '86.
I prefer Avery over Oprah, but her misguided Oscar ads didn't help her. Also think that the diluted parts from the book left a negative evaluation on the final outcome. (Spielberg wanted Tina Turner for this role, but I don't think she would've cut it.)
Seems that there was too much 'why is Spielberg telling our story' chatter at the time that soured the voters. Seems that we must wait 30 years to really see what was great. Huston-can't say that her role resonates to me in the 'mafia movie hall of fame.' Wished that they saved her award for 'The Grifters.'
I like Oprah's performance a lot, but I basically agree with Nathaniel about it. It lacks subtlety, especially in the big climactic scenes. I find this to be an issue with her acting in general (this was a problem with The Butler as well, particular in the "old age" scenes), so I don't know if you can blame it on the fact that it was an early performance. But it's an incredibly dynamic performance, and of course she radiates charisma like no one else.
My preference would have been Avery, who is so warm and such a great scene partner for Goldberg. She does so much just with her eyes sometimes. It's a pity she didn't go farther with her career. It seems she's sometimes remembered most for her Oscar campaign today.
I'm totally TeamHuston, always been. "Prizzi's Honor" is such and underrated masterpiece and Anjelica steals every scene she's in, I'm so glad she won. Anyway, such a great category that year (especially Winfrey and Tilly).
Nathaniel, why are you counting Nora's vote for Prizzi's Honor if she hasn't seen the whole movie? I demand a recount.
This category could've been absolute perfection with all but THE COLOR PURPLE ladies booted and the CLUE trio rounding out the line-up. Chunchuna Villafañe would've been an inspired nominee too for THE OFFICIAL STORY.
That said, here are my two cents...
Margaret Avery, THE COLOR PURPLE - four hearts
Ah, how I love this film, even if Steven Spielberg sanitizes the shit out of the Alice Walker novel. Shug Avery especially is a different creature from the page to screen, her rambunctiousness and sexuality largely minimized, with the spotlight instead shone on her voluminous heart and soul - she all but becomes an angelic figure by the film's end, right at home in Spielbergland. Avery, despite Shug's dubious treatment by the screenwriters, completely makes the sale. It's a rich and confident turn from an actress who by that point had spent the bulk of her career with minuscule parts on the small screen. Avery is a delicious hoot when (all too rarely) allowed to exploit Shug's crassness but it's her chemistry with Whoopi Goldberg and their scenes together that really pump blood through the proceedings. The film's Shug may not be as spirited as the novel's but Avery still aces the part and has a shimmering screen presence that leaves me sad and baffled that more quality roles never came along.
Oprah Winfrey, THE COLOR PURPLE - four hearts
Nearly matching her co-star in splendor is Winfrey, making one hell of an acting debut as the larger than life Sofia. At first, the performance seems almost too animated and exuberant, as if more tailored to the stage than screen. This irrepressible vitality in early scenes, however, ultimately makes it all the more devastating when Sofia is broken, both physically and emotionally. Winfrey all too vividly conveys a shattered woman, once full of tenacity and buoyancy and now entirely shut down from the world around her. That dinner table scene toward the film's end ("I knew there is a God") destroys me every time. I only wish Winfrey were present for longer - vis a vis Avery, her presence feels rather fleeting. Still, Winfrey's a heartbreaker.
Meg Tilly, AGNES OF GOD - three hearts
In the echelon of women Oscar-nominated for portraying nuns, Tilly can't hold a candle to Jennifer Jones (THE SONG OF BERNADETTE) or Ingrid Bergman (THE BELLS OF ST. MARY'S) but is at least a little more compelling than Lilia Skala (LILIES OF THE FIELD) and Amy Adams (DOUBT). Tilly's wide-eyed, otherworldly performance is a tad one-note but at least she's in there trying, unlike co-star Jane Fonda, who sleepwalks/chain smokes her way through the picture (has she ever looked more disinterested?). She's also a breath of fresh air in contrast to Anne Bancroft's exhausting histrionics. Tilly's the one bright spot of a film I otherwise loathe. That said, I would be fascinated to time travel back to the Broadway production and see just what Geraldine Page and Amanda Plummer made of this dreck.
Anjelica Huston, PRIZZI'S HONOR - three hearts
Much as I adore Huston (I say she should've been nominated and won for her devastating turn in CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS later in the decade), this victory, and her gobbling up of all of the critics' awards that season, leaves me a bit perplexed. Not that she isn't in fine form as the manipulative, dejected Maerose - I do find myself rooting for this character on every viewing and she looks absolutely sensational (kudos to Donfeld's fabulous costume design) - but the performance ultimately lacks the zest of her finest work and I don't think shines any brighter than the rest of the colorful supporting cast. I'm pleased Huston has an Oscar but for this?
Amy Madigan, TWICE IN A LIFETIME - one heart
Oof, this has not aged well at all. How could a film with Gene Hackman and Ellen Burstyn be so inept? And how were the marvelous CLUE ladies all given the cold shoulder in favor of this? I expected to write about how this picture is no more sophisticated than most of the decade's countless TV Movies of the Week but it doesn't really even operate at that modest a level. It's a supremely dreary affair all-around. As for Madigan specifically, an actress more than capable of great work, she only adds to the sourness of the proceedings. It's an overwrought, unpleasant performance that somehow makes her incensed daughter just as loathsome a figure as Gene Hackman's rotten father.
Andrew Carden: My Supporting Actress ballot:
Margaret Avery, The Colour Purple
Sonia Braga, Kiss of the Spider-Woman
Katharine Helmond, Brazil
Kim Greist, Brazil
Oprah Winfrey, The Colour Purple
How can anyone judge and vote for Prizzi's Honor without seeing any scene with Kathleen Turner? She's the other woman and the other half of the movie! I demand a recount too.
Since this is no longer serious, let's extrapolate for the fun of it. If you really think that Oprah gave an Oscar worthy performance, will you be pleased with her being the next President? Apparently she can't get away with anything.
Peggy Sue: The DVD is out of print. As far as I'm aware, it's not been released on Blu-Ray. There's no streaming option for it. And, sorry, they're judging a performance as opposed to the movie itself. Also: I have seen, and am not a fan of, Prizzi's Honor and would ONLY be able to, somewhat, defend the Supporting Actress nomination. Actor, Actress, Director, Picture, Screenplay (do NOT get me started on the ending), Supporting Actor and, especially, Editing are jaw droppingly wrong.
1. Margareth Avery
2. Meg Tilly
3. Oprah Winfrey
4. Anjelica Huston
5. Amy Madigan
You can't isolate a performance.
If you haven't seen the movie, don't vote for it.
@Peggy Sue - Does Huston even have any scenes with Turner? Not that I can recall.
I'm totally flummoxed by all the love for Huston. In later movies I think she's great, but in this movie she's so clearly TRYING. You can see every choice, physically and vocally. The whole performance is a young actress trying to do all the things she's been told to do, either by the script or the director. It's incredibly stilted and unnatural.
I'm not so surprised by Madigan's low rating but I actually found her to be quite good, even if her character is irritating (although most of the characters in that movie are, so I don't blame her).
Avery or Winfrey would be perfectly good winners. While I initially went for Winfrey, I now think Avery is probably the best, infusing her performance with all the big, bold emotions Spielberg is constantly pushing for without resorting to cartoonish characterization, like Winfrey does with her big, galumphing entrance down the dirt road.
How can you root for or against Maerose if you know nothing about Irene?
I agree that surely the weight of the Smackdown is in judging the performance within the context of the film itself. And Prizzi's Honor was released on Blu-ray a few weeks ago, so it is available.
That said, let's not get too heavy about it. The Smackdown is a bit of fun, right? For which, thanks to Nathaniel and the panellists.
Huston's is the only performance I know really well - and I've always rather liked it. All her appearances in the film add to the family intrigue and feed into the difficult decisions that Charley has to make as the plot becomes clearer. I think it's a smart, and compelling supporting performance. Of the others, I have seen The Color Purple but a number of years ago, and my recollection of Avery and Winfrey's performances is generally in line with what's been said here: they're both very good, but perhaps a little broad/sanitised. That said, perhaps they're perfectly in keeping with the film itself. I haven't seen Twice in a Lifetime or Agnes of God, but look forward to seeing them one day.
Ah Smackdown - Bliss.
Though my usual dilemma - do I dive right in and listen to it immediately or do listen to it in sections and try and spread the magic out for as long as I can.
Nathaniel you should go on speaking with everyone as long as you need to. Don't feel obliged to keep it short. I'm so appreciative of these slices of heaven!
I know we all love the Clue ladies but seriously back in 85 I doubt they had a hope in a flop comedy no one liked.
I have to say it's an utter delight to see this month's entry bring together two of my favorite things - this series (which I've loved since the StinkyLulu days) and Nora Zehetner (Brick is one of my top 10 movies of all time, and I think she's a captivating actor, generally). As to the outcome - I'd stick with Huston, who, along with Hickey, I think makes the film, but I certainly see the case for the ladies of The Color Purple.
I think I haven't seen such discomfort over a smackdown before. Please dear future panelist, watch the complete movie before participating, and also please actually talk about the performance.
Scott C -- it was actually Hickey's scene with Huston that surprised me most in that back in the day i didnt get the excitement about his performance but he is totally great in this movie and when he's sharing a scene with ANYONE else in the movie they kind of fade away (yes, even Kathleen Turner)
Mark -- yeah. CLUE was not regarded well at the time. I went to it three times (to see all three endings) but most people thought it was bad or were just not interested.
Peggy Sue -- Kathleen and Anjelica have no scenes together. Ideally of course it's best to judge a performance in the whole film context but sometimes life gets in the way.
I'm totally flummoxed by all the love for Huston. In later movies I think she's great, but in this movie she's so clearly TRYING. You can see every choice, physically and vocally. The whole performance is a young actress trying to do all the things she's been told to do, either by the script or the director. It's incredibly stilted and unnatural.
Many performances from her are naked with the technique or intent on full display.
William Hickey's fabulous turn for sure should've prevailed over the utter nothingness that is Don Ameche in COCOON. That Supporting Actor line-up as a whole, though - yeesh.
Oprah walks exactly like my character in Cold Mountain. You all love Oprah and hate my Oscar win. Hypocrites!
Though it may be somewhat beloved at this time, when The Color Purple was released it seemed to get a lukewarm response. Maybe it the cleansing of the storyline - but it seemed that Spielberg, just coming off E.T. & Indiana Jones and the Temple Of Doom made the characters in this film too childish/cartoonish. (Does make sense when it's pointed out that Sofia enters the movie like Foghorn Leghorn.) He wanted room at the adult's table and this was his 'grow-up' movie. Though it ended up with 11 nominations, I think it was his juvenile touches that doomed itself in the final count. Had Oprah been a fresh discovery (and not 'a talk show host from Chicago), perhaps she could've prevailed. Again - I favor Avery, but her misguided Oscar ads and the 'Spielberg stigma' must've soured voters. Seemed that everyone hated Twice in a Lifetime, so Huston was there by default.
Meg Tilly would be my first choice. It's a tough character to believe, and she brings just the right tone of innocence to the part. Margaret Avery's performance has aged very well, while Oprah's has lost a bit of its lustre for me. I haven't seen Prizzi's Honor is many years and I honestly don't remember a thing Angelica Huston did in the film, although I have vivid memories of her work in The Grifters and Enemies: A Love Story. Amy Madigan hits the same note with a sledgehammer in Twice in a Lifetime.
Looking back at 1985 with many years of perspective, it's hard to believe Out of Africa was Best Picture. The Color Purple, Back to the Future, Mask, Witness, The Official Story (a personal favourite) have all shown lasting appeal. But I guess we could make the same judgement many years later of a lot of Best Picture winners.
Andrew Carden: If I were to rank 1980s Supporting Actor fields?
10. 1985 (Yes, the field is entirely "honest", but this line-up is, on reputation, also one of the strongest cases for category fraud you could ever make.)
9. 1987 (3 cases of category fraud (Connery, Brooks and, I'd assume, Washington), plus the bizarre choice of Vincent Gardenia. Even if Morgan Freeman was both a good AND honest choice, that still can't bump up this field.)
8. 1988
7. 1989
6. 1984
5. 1980 (These next 4? Varying degrees of understandable, even if one case of category fraud is also, unfortunately, present on each ballot.)
4. 1986
3. 1981
2. 1983
1. 1982 (These top 4? NO fraud and entirely to mostly understandable choices.)
So if 1985 is the worst Supporting Actor ballot of that decade, what would my ballot be? This:
Adolph Caesar, The Color Purple
Robert DeNiro, Brazil
Christopher Lloyd, Back to the Future
Michael Palin, Brazil
M. Emmett Walsh, Blood Simple
I always read about Bancroft being hilariously OTT bad and Jane sleepwalking and smoking yet I got none of that from either actress.
I think Amy Madigan is a fine actress, but I have a particular dislike of whatever we've been able to appreciate of her as a person, for instance at Awards shows. She and her husband Ed Harris always look like they've just had a tooth pulled out. You won't catch them smiling, that's for sure. I particularly remember their indifferent, sour reaction to Emma Thompson's hilarious acceptance speech for Best Screenplay at the GGs, where she read what was supposed to be a diary entry by Jane Austen after attending the ceremony.
In any case, this is my list, in alphabetical order:
Margaret Avery
Anjelica Huston
Madeline Kahn (Clue)
Maggie Smith (A Room With a View)
Oprah Winfrey
Let's not dance around it: Huston won because of the bloodline. The narrative from the moment the film bowed: "John's daughter does good." But good (DJDeeJay's analysis is spot on) should not have been good enough for her to sweep the critics awards (they were literally panting over her) and snag the Oscar (it's like giving the gold medal to third place).
If Avery had done her own singing, she would have gotten my vote. Though cartoonish in some scenes, Oprah still triumphs.
Braga's omission was criminal; she would have been my pick for the best supporting actress of the year. As with Prizzi's Honor, this was another case of the least impressive performance in a film being showered with praise and getting the gold (Hurt's sissy shtick is offensive and embarrassing, but voters clearly fell for the "Brave Straight Guy Plays Gay" narrative). With Page and Ameche riding the sentiment wave, 1985 has to be one of the worst winner lineups ever.
It is Avery for me. Running away. Her post-'Purple' disappearance is yet another reminder of Hollywood's treatment of character actresses of color (Oscar nominations sure don't seem to do much for most), which explains why Octavia Spencer and Viola Davis are just now breaking post-win/nomination curses for black women.
That she'd never again get a shot makes me wish she'd have won even more.
As far as Huston, I recently watched her performance for the first time ('cause Smackdown) and...no. The film itself is bizarre, overlong, and dated, and I can't remember a thing about her performance, save her look.
Oprah is Oprah and I loved her Sophia. If Avery couldn't pull out the win, I'm happy she did.
I liked Tilly's performance, too, in another dated, confusing film.
Preach, Renée, preach!
Maggie Smith did get nominated for 'A Room With a View' for 1986 awards.
#TeamShugAvery, though it's cool and unexpected to see Oprah manage the win here with all the vitriol she usually gets online. It would have been something to see Oprah get a perfect score (would it have killed u lot to do that?), but a win's a win!!! I think it was the character arc of Shug's that won me over slightly over Sofia's, though at the time, I thought that Avery did her own singing, and I hadn't read the novel to realize all the changes until college. Over time, I learned that Avery lip-synced, and then she did this very bizarre Oscar campaign that ruined her win chances outright. Might have tarnished Oprah in the process too, though she certainly had greater ambitions in store. "Prizzi's Honor" does absolutely nothing for me. I would have replaced Anjelica Huston for Maggie Smith in "A Room with a View" in a heartbeat! Never saw Amy Madigan. I remember being stunned by Meg Tilly the one time I watched "Agnes of God." Wish I'd seen some other 80s staples like "Clue" and "Desperately Seeking Susan" for context (Madonna Oscar-worthy? You don't say?). And FYI, Margaret Avery has been doing fine and nuanced work on "Being Mary Jane" for FIVE seasons now. She isn't lying in gutter of obscurity or something just b/c you don't see her regularly on the big screen anymore.
Her face, her talk, her walk, her dress, her aura...I don't know what's a mafia's daughter supposed to be in real life but the minute Angelica Huston (who's just a movie director's daughter) appeared in Prizzi's Honor I told myself that's the mob daughter if ever there was one. It's one of the oscar roles that the actor just fits the role perfectly.
The late Jan Hooks provided so much joy in such a small amount of time in PEE WEE'S BIG ADVENTURE, I can't help but wish she got a Beatrice Straight nomination!