Q&A: JLaw at the Top, Chris Pine's Future, Trans Characters in Cinema
Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 10:51PM 
Bob Fosse on the set of LennyApologies dearest readers about the slow rollout of various columns this month. April is such a weird month, isn't it? What can you do. So you recently asked a bunch of questions and here's 11 answers! I hope you'll speak out on these same topics in the comments to make this more conversational. I do actually love to hear your opinions, too! xoxo
EDWARD: Have you ever wanted to make a movie?
NATHANIEL: The short answer is "no". The medium answer is I think it might be fun to work on one once, to have the experience (the areas that most interest me in terms of my own potential skills are casting and editing). But my basic feeling is that I love movies too much to commit to one only for years on end as so many filmmakers seem to have to do. The long answer is that I have fantasized about it but usually only in the context of becoming a great director of modern movie musicals since Hollywood so desperately needs someone who is inspired by / committed to that genre specifically. We need a new Fosse/Minnelli/Berkeley/Donen roughly a billion times more than we need a new Scorsese/Spielberg/Tarantino/Malick/Kubrick/Whomever. There are always people trying to be that latter group of guys!
MARK: If you could bring back any movie star deceased back in a Peter Cushing Rogue One style cameo who would you choose.
NATHANIEL: I would choose not to do this at all. I think when an actor dies they shouldn't be conjured up with visual effects artistry. I read interviews where they stressed 'we didn't do anything that would have upset Peter Cushing' but let's be honest: he's dead and there's no way they could possibly know this! That's just them rationalizing their neato visual tricks. To me it feels weirdly like plagiarism since the actor in question has no control over the performance that is using their image / voice. We should just celebrate whatever work great actors left us before they passed on!
CARLOS: I know Almodóvar is your favorite living director, so I'm curious to hear what are some of your favorite parts of his filmography. Let's say, in Oscar fashion, favorite movie, script, lead and supporting actor/actress performances?
We will be doing a week long Pedro party (May 9th-15th). I'll answer this question quickly but I'd prefer to do it less quickly with five nominees for each category, ha! Anyway short answers (since I'd want to see everything again to draw up a "five nominee by category list") that are subject to change go like so...
Film: Law of Desire
Direction: Talk to Her
Screenplay: All About My Mother
Performance, Ensemble: Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown
Lead Performance, Female: Penelope Cruz, Volver
Lead Performance, Male: Gael García Bernal, Bad Education
I'd have to think too hard on Supporting Performances as his movies have such crazy rich ensembles but I love Carmen Maura in absolutely everything (though she's often a lead).
KAREN: Would you ever consider covering an old Cannes festival in May as the next one begins?
I've actually considered this several times. It would be beyond interesting given the wide swath of international cinema involved each time. But every time I think 'this May we'll do [insert old year here] I discover that too many of the films from that year are impossible to find. It's quite frustrating! It's sometimes even hard to find Oscar nominees from any given year so I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that it's infinitely harder to find random 20ish Cannes competition titles from all over the world.
ROONEY: Jennifer Lawrence -- After her underperforming Joy and Passengers, what's your prognosis? Will she remain dominant or is her time at the top already slowly passing?
Contrary to popular consensus I don't actually think Joy and Passengers underperformed. I mean obviously they did in terms of studio expectations. But I'd argue that given what they were, qualitatively and story-wise, they did well. In fact, I think Joy would have outright flopped without her in the leading role. I actually think it's a good movie (*dodges your tomatoes*) but it's an odd one without any kind of traditional audience hook (beyond, 'hey, it's the new Jennifer Lawrence movie!')
Here's a conundrum, though: I think Passengers would absolutely have been a better movie with someone else in her role (her laziest performance as there's just nothing in the performance selling the actual character or her journalism that we're hearing about) but I also think she helped it eke out $100 million despite no one really loving it. So my answer is that she'll remain dominant. Generally speaking supernova actors like that have about a 5-10 year window before they're just regular ol' absurdly wealthy and fabulous stars again (1% problems!). We're technically at Year 5 with JLaw since she ascended to superstardom with The Hunger Games / Silver Linings Playbook (nearly a billion globally between them in a single year!) so I think there will be at a couple more major hits before she is just "one of" the main stars of her generation rather than the star. I sense that this question wants a "she's over!" answer. I regret to inform you then, Rooney, that my prediction is that she remains famous and popular her whole life even when she's no longer considered truly "bankable" ... like how Julia Roberts is now.
ANA: Are there going to be April Shower Episodes?
Not this year - the month got away -- but I'm hoping next year to do some in advance so that we can have them literally every day of the month which was always the intention that never happened! Please enjoy this picture of Jake Gyllenhaal in the shower as my apology!
JB: I just finished reading "Where'd You Go Bernadette," and the casting of Cate Blanchett is sooo perfect, that it's almost taken away some of the excitement around it, because it's so flawless and indesputable. I'm not entirely sure how to eloquently and correctly phrase what I'm getting at, but have you ever experienced that, where the casting of a role is just so on point, and the actor just nails every beat impeccably, that the obviousness of them in that role ultimately takes away some of the thrill of the performance?
I haven't experienced the second part of that equation because my only recollection of a casting decision where I was absolutely floored at how perfect it was was Michelle Pfeiffer in White Oleander. But I found the performance that arrived even more thrilling than my best dreams for it after hearing she'd been cast (I loved the book). I think it's one of her three best performances from her whole career and given my love for her you know that's saying something! Curiously, despite not reading a lot of books (he says with shame), I had also read The Deep End of the Ocean before Michelle Pfeiffer was cast and I had the opposite experience with that one. I thought she was wrong for the part when I heard the casting but that she would still manage to be great but I ended up feeling underwhelmed by the performance.
CHRIS: will there be Film Bitch nominees for acting in limited (cameo) roles or I did I miss them?
I have the rough draft half done. I am just super late.
TYLER: What are your overall thoughts on Chris Pine? Do you like him as an actor? Do you see an Oscar nomination in his future?
If he keeps up his stretching, then yes. "Pretty" men have always had a hard time being taken seriously as actors and he's just now entering the age where his looks will become less of an obstacle. I think it's just part of the headspace of the patriarchal society we live in that men are more valued once they are a bit "weathered". It's the same system of thought that leads people to think that men age gracefully while women just "lose their looks". It's annoying and absurdly sexist but it's how things work in mainstream culture (generally speaking of course as there are exceptions to all such arbitrary "rules").
Looks and aging aside, Pine is also growing as an actor. Into the Woods was a smart comic stretch. Then his dramatic moment at the Oscar (oh wait, that was real life... but still endearing!) followed by his best dramatic performance to date in Hell or High Water. The Oscar nomination might still be a decade away but if he keeps choosing good material, I do think it'll come.
IRVIN: Can Get Out and Logan get some Oscar attention?
Yes. As you'll see in the April Foolish Oscar predictions, I think Logan has a good shot as anything at a Makeup and Hair nomination (though that branch is notoriously impossible to understand) and I think Get Out, with the right campaign, could become a contender across the board.
Cathy Moriarty as "Nurse Nan" in SOAPDISHJAMES: How badly do we need to re-assess trans portrayals in early 90s cinema? There's everything from Ace Ventura to The Crying Game. Also Soapdish, Silence of the Lambs, and all the drag movies because heaven help us most didn't know the difference between drag queens and transgender people then.
This will be an unpopular opinion but I'm not actually sure we need to reassess the past continually in light of current feelings. Perhaps it depends on what you mean by reassess. I think this is one of the dangers of Social Justice Warrior mentality, though that's awkard to say being very pro Social Justice. The thing is that when people defaut to outrage and judgment the result is that instead of opening the world's minds to new ways of thinking about complicated issues that a lot of people don't understand (even within the LGBT community) we end up shutting down thoughtful discussion, and honest group therapy opportunities about supporting each other in the best ways possible. One size does not always fit all, especially when you add in the passage of time. Context is very important and context changes.
I recently saw the new documentary The Death and Life of Marsha P Johnson about the famous Stonewall activist. The archival footage was quite amazing but it was interesting, watching it in 2017 after all these years of trans rights discussions and preferred pronoun popularity and the sudden banishing of the term "tranny", that both Marsha and her friend Sylvia Rivera, referred to themselves interchangeably throughout all the old footage as interviews as "transvestites," "drag queens" and "women" while discussing their activism for their rights and the rights of their sisters. Sometimes within the archival footage they were wearing men's clothes and sometimes women's clothes! They were militant about deserving their rights but they didn't seem militant at all about what words they used and what words other people used (Marsha P Johnson's family, who are interviewed in the documentary, don't seem to have decided whether to say "he" or "she" still, years after her death)
I found it fascinating but it also made me sad. I realized that a lot of people today who think of themselves as progressive will be eager to condemn these two women featured in the documentary because of the way they discuss the issues. And these are two pioneers who created a safe house for homeless trans women back in the 1970s for f***'s sake and who actually jump-started the entire LGBT movement. They basically gave us the foundation from which we are now able to get angry about things like insensitivity to the trans experience! It's a funny sort of paradox, isn't it?
Sylvia Rivera and Marsha P Johnson of 70s activism fame.
That's it for this week's 'Ask Nathaniel' responses. I'd love to hear your takes on Jennifer Lawrence's current popularity (secure or wobbly?), reviving dead actors via CGI, and what is the proper way to view old movies given our modern eyes?
Reader Comments (46)
Thanks. I agree that Miss Jennifer is on the waning end of supernova stardom. Maybe she will hook audiences in a few more times, but I would like to see more depth from a four-time Oscar nominee/best actress winner. We know that she can crawl on her knees towards a man, but I need more.
The past is filled with prejudice in the art. It serves no purpose in tearing down the old when something new can come along and be judged in its relation to now.
Thank you for the response(s), Nat. Your reply to the final question is so beautifully written and thoughtfully articulated, I shall frame it. If only more people would have the compassion and the maturity of understanding and *context* that you do. Keep it up.
Joy is a pretty great film. Throw the tomatoes back at 'em Nat.
Why every time I see "JLaw" on your blog do I assume you're going to talk about Jude Law? I got to the last word and was like, "I clicked here for Jude Law but I CAN'T SEE HIM! I CAN'T SEE HIM!"
I'd love to help with the Supporting Performances in Almodovar films...
Male: Javier Cámara, Bad Education - a complete scene/movie stealer... you yearn for him to come back after his few minutes.
Female: ex-aequo, Chus Lampreave and Rossy de Palma in basically anything they did with Pedro, but since they have a phenomenal acting duel in "The Flower of my Secret", that should be the right answer.
Nathaniel: Thanks so much for answering my question. I too feel that we need more people aspiring to be the next Donen/Fosse etc. than the next Scorsese/Tarantino etc. Nothing against those greats, but it'd be good to redress the balance!
I enjoyed all your other answers too. And in the Rogue One and trans representation answers, you manage - as so often - to put across a sensible, compassionate position with absolute clarity.
Oh, and yes to Chris Pine and the Oscars - and to the more general point about looks and ageing and gender.
I really need to fill in my Almodóvar gaps. And to rewatch ones I've already seen.
I truly connect with Nathaniel's answer that we should not try to discuss or debate on actors who have died or even try to recreate them. We should enjoy their work and love what they have left for us.
I felt so excited when I saw my question answered! I hope Jennifer Lawrence find a great signature role for which we'll remember in the future why she's an oscar winner. I think all her nominated roles are good (my favorite's Winter's Bone) but she hasn't been at her best yet.
JLaw has some potentially meaty roles coming up, with Red Sparrow, Mother! and Bad Blood - an interesting variety of roles, genres and collaborators. If one or two of those hit big, then her status as the top female actress in her generation will be set for another few years. If all those are actual (or perceived) failures, then the press and gossip trades will start to turn on her.
As for reassessing 90s cinema... I immediately thought of The Birdcage. I saw this when I was about 16 in Ireland and really HATED it - it made me incredibly uncomfortable for a variety of reasons, most of which I now recognise was just me still coming to terms with my own sexuality. As I've grown older, I've grown to love it more and more, despite its flaws. However, Ace Ventura, a film which may have made me physically ill through laughing when I was younger, is now almost unwatchable. I think the key is tone - the big joke in Ace Ventura is how utterly gross a trans character is, while The Birdcage, despite its broadness, loves those characters and wants to communicate that love to us.
Love your answer to the question about trans representation. I think it is all part of the narrative and we have to acknowledge and take ownership of all of our past, whether it is our direct history or not. It is far more powerful to take control of words that were once used to demonize and transform those words into rhetoric of strength and courage in the face of adversity.
I like what you said about defaulting to outrage being a danger of social justice. I'm pro social justice myself, but I agree with that and I hate that "SJW" has become its own meme essentially because of that.
I have never nodded so fervently as when I read your note about needing a new Minnelli.
Why do we need to start speculating on when someone's time up,I personally think Lawrence is just revving up,she's like Nat said our current Julia Roberts.
Why are Julia and Sandra the benchmark for females cos they opened films in the 90's heydeys all on their own,no social media,no tweets,no friends or likes just sheer charisma,yes she had some flops every star does,Pitt did not hit his BO stride till Seven & Twelve Monkeys really and then came Fight Club,Meet Joe Black,The Devil's Own and 7 Years in Tibet which all flopped and look at him now,a true one of a kind star.
Johansson is who is just as famous has J Law has only really opened Lucy!!
Love the line Social Justice Warrior we have them en masse in the UK,Thanks for your honest answer to my Cushing Cameo Question.
Absolutely agree on Pfeiffer where I thought she was perfect casting for Ingrid,It's in your top 3 Nat,it's my Numer One,I always feel she's slightly off in The Age Of Innocence,she has some great scenes but she feels wrong even though she is good in the part.
I always have the same reaction to Streep in Doubt or Adams in The Master seems right on paper feels wrong on viewing.
Even if the columns had a "slow rollout" in April, they're always so well thought-out and eloquent that we can't possibly hold it against you! Thanks for a great piece -- and month overall! :)
Nat: Kind of agree. We should judge modern work by modern standards (if someone pulled something like the end of Ace Ventura today, critics would absolutely yell them out of the room, and have (see: Hangover Part II)), but getting too harsh toward past works for being past works is...not ACTUALLY constructive?
Jennifer Lawrence is the peoples' princess - if you like barfing, farting and belching.
Huppert in Elle feels like a pretty good example of that "Of course they'd get this part and deliver the shit out of it" phenomenon, which is one of my favorite things to think about performances. How could you not cast her, looking at her career and persona against everything Michele needs to be for that movie to work at all? Kristen Stewart in Personal Shopper seems like another variant of this, even if I'm not that psyched about the work. Oh, the character needs to be emotionally restrained at nearly al times? Makes sense.
I'll just sign off on everything you said about reassessing social politics in old films, Nat, with a massive salute to IanO - I had the exact same experience with The Birdcage - and run off to watch those Almodovar rentals from back when he was on sale on iTunes that are dangerously close to expiring.
My only concern for Jennifer is that she seems fine being marketed as a traditional (retro) sex symbol? Her character in Red Sparrow, for example, is a spy trained by the Russians on how to seduce and have sex with men. It's a bit Pretty Woman-ish, or worse? I know its film marketing 101, you have to "earn" your $20 million, and she is a gorgeous girl, but I hope she gets to do some other kinds of roles that don't just trade off of her sex appeal.
Jennifer Lawrence's superstardom is a sign of cultural collapse. No person with even a modicum of intelligence could find her compelling in any way--she's inarticulate, ignorant, and incredibly crass. Her story about rubbing her butt on the sacred rocks in Hawaii was disgusting, as was the photo she brought in to James Corden of her peeing on a lawn next to her mother.
She has no appreciation of cinema as art. She calls silent movies "boring." She possesses no technical skill as an actress whatsoever.
She maintains an image of being "down to earth" and relatable despite earning $20 million dollars per film. She admits to being rude to her fans when they approach her in public...she is an elitist masquerading as a populist.
She appeals to the lowest common denominator, which is why she has become so successful. She is the Donald Trump of actresses.
All these meltdowns about Jennifer Lawrence are so over the top. I actually snorted out my coffee when she was called the "Donald Trump" of acting. We don't really know what she's really like on set, and media image/interviews are a whole different ball game. What I do know is that onscreen she has great instincts, and if she can tap into those instincts she makes for a very convincing and moving performance.
I think we need to take into account that no one is 'bringing Peter Cushing back to life'. They're bringing Grand Moff Tarkin back, and simply using Cushing's likeness.
And is it any worse than superimposing famous deceased musicians and politicians like John Lennon and Lynden Johnson alongside Forrest Gump, which the eponymous film did over twenty years ago?
Speaking of The Silence of the Lambs, a brilliant film despite its problematic presentation of a LGBT character, I have just read the sad news concerning Jonathan Demme's death.
I trust this site will shortly do an article highlighting this sad news, but I thought I'd mention it in view of his brilliant filmography, including Lambs, Stop Making Sense (IMHO the best concert film of all time), Something Wild, Married to the Mob, and the seminal Philadelphia, along with his various, rightly acclaimed, documentaries. I had the privilege of seeing him during a Q & A for his Jimmy Carter documentary, Man from the Plains, a few years back, and he was as eloquent and compelling as much of his film work.
"She is the Donald Trump of actresses." Yes!
Thanks for answering my question! I'm looking forward to the Almodóvar series!
@Marco - there's a difference between using archival footage and using CGI to recreate a deceased human being.
I hope this is just a passing fad and not indicative of things to come.
Everyone: No, Jennifer Lawrence should not be at four acting nominations. Without Hunger Games, I doubt she would have gotten more than two of those (Winter's Bone and American Hustle), and probably wouldn't be a winner. HOWEVER: Before Jennifer Lawrence became a star in 2012, there was a threat of Carey Mulligan becoming a star for two or three years. *Blugh* Yeah, I'll take trashy over dull any day. Yes, the best stars are both some form of classy AND compelling, but if it's trashy and the latter versus the former and dull...?
Mixed feelings on JLaw as an actress and not really a fan of her offscreen persona (but not nearly as down on her as others here, it seems!) - I do think she overdoes the whole down-to-earth, IDGAF vibe, even though that's a huge part of her appeal.
However, I join Nathaniel and Amir in the pro-JOY camp. It's a pretty great movie, and she's great in it - in fact the only David O. Russell movie in which I thought she was well cast.
On the flip side, I thought she was miscast and wildly overpraised in Silver Linings Playbook, as everything about that movie was; and she was the worst thing about American Hustle, a movie I otherwise liked - cannot for the life of me fathom how she got an Oscar nod out of that performance.
Thanks for answering my question!
I like your take on things, Nathaniel. For me, I was re-watching Soapdish recently, and I was wondering if someday we'll cringe at trans representations like Montana ("She's a boy!") the way we do now at turns in classics like Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. Montana is a villain who is also trans (important to distinguish she's not a villain because she's trans) -- and thus the argument could go that since's there's no ill intent toward trans people, the movie isn't transphobic. Right?
But even so, I feel uncomfortable watching that outing scene now, despite loving the rest of the movie.
Is Carey Mulligan that bad? I think she's an amazing actress (she is particularly powerful in Never Let Me Go and Shame), whether one thinks she has 'star quality' or not.
And surely using archival footage to misrepresent a real event, by say superimposing a modern character into it is just as potentially problematic as bringing a character, played by a deceased actor, back. After all, most people know Peter Cushing is long dead, and that it's not him per se that is playing Grand Moff Tarkin in Rogue One. Moreover, what is the difference between using CGI to match Peter Cushing's likeness, and say using very sophisticated makeup to make Guy Henry, who provided Tarkin's voice and physical movements in the new film, resemble him?
@James from Ames I was a huge fan of Soapdish when it first came out, and I still get a kick out of the film whenever it comes on TV, but as big a fan as I am and as much as I adore Cathy Moriarty, particularly in this film, I do feel a little uncomfortable about the ending, in which Montana (AKA Milton) Moorehouse's secret is exposed live on TV. Although Montana is a calculating, self-serving villainess, and one can't feel too sorry about her downfall, it's the way she's brought down that bothers me. She's specifically humiliated and ridiculed because of her transgender status. It's presented as something bizarre and even shameful (which is emphasised by Robert Downey Jr's character's disgusted reaction to the reveal).
One can excuse the film on the basis that it was made during much less enlightened times, but it does mean that this particular joke has significantly dated and that for all the many other positive things one can say about this fun, smart, snappily-paced comedy, Milton's humiliation does leave a sour taste in the mouth.
I apologise. I meant to say 'Montana's humiliation', not 'Milton's humiliation' (although that said, Montana does go back to being referred to as Milton after being consigned to regional dinner theatre by the film's close).
Marco: She's a good, but not great, actress overall (completely wrong for her 2015 movies, especially Madding Crowd, though), but it was very good for everyone, especially her, that she didn't become the star that the 2009-2011 period was threatening was about to happen.
@Marco -- thank you for putting into words what I feel as well. The way Montana is defeated just kind of ruins the movie for me now.
That said, Montana remains in my list of top 10 movie villains. What a wonderful performance.
I just want to thank you for Jakey Poo in the shower!
In fairness to Jennifer Lawrence, isn't she just riding her chance at fame like any other actor would? People project a lot on her that is not her problem. I only notice that she seems to hate film promotion, which unfortunately comes with the territory.
Chris Pine is at an interesting juncture. Not to associate anything with him, but many of us are still waiting for an A-list male movie star like him or Bradley Cooper to come out of the closet.
The topic of trans representation in older projects reminds me of watching a Season 1 episode of "Ally McBeal" that I watched on Netflix a while ago. Wilson Cruz plays one of Ally's clients; his character is a prostitute who is ultimately murdered (which I found still to be sadly resonant). It's a double-edged sword, because here was a Top 20, zeitgeist TV show giving a character like this sympathy and representation, and yet the episode could never decide if Wilson's character, Stephen/Stephanie, is transgender or a cross-dressing male.
I'll have to revisit both the film and book "White Oleander". I think I remembered picturing Neve Campbell in the part ultimately played by Renee Zelwegger. I also remember Michelle on "Inside the Actors Studio," and she said something lovely about how she reads a script and she almost hear a character when it's well-written, and ends with this doozy, paraphrased: "I understood every woman in that script. EXCEPT her. I had to *really* work to get there."
"Jennifer Lawrence's superstardom is a sign of cultural collapse. No person with even a modicum of intelligence could find her compelling in any way--she's inarticulate, ignorant, and incredibly crass. "
You seem nice.
The reactions of anti-JLaw people are, like most extreme over-the-top reactions to actresses a lot of eye-rolling nonsense.
I really liked your response to the question about trans visibility. It's much the same thoughts when it comes to movies like The Boys in the Band. It's like how apparently BOYS DON'T CRY is hated by the new generation and how a screening was PROTESTED. Which is a bit sad, really. It's like, plz, this ain't The Birth of a Nation.
Add my name to the list of people who don't understand the Jennifer Lawrence excoriation, and I'm not even a devotee. One would think she went on a puppy-murdering campaign or something.
Understanding historical context and author's intentions is key to evaluating any media text which depicts any marginalized group. It's the only way to make the distinction between something like Eddie Murphy's Delirious and William Friedkin's The Boys in the Band. To assess those images solely through the prism of modern-day politics and recently acquired knowledge is to constantly be offended, even by the things whose objectives were noble.
JLaw is a magnet because of her huge fame and salary. She also does things, like making fun of a foreign reporter at the Golden Globes who innocently read a question of his phone, that are simply tone deaf and a turn off.
Thanks for your thoughts on Chris Pine, Nathaniel. Hope it doesn't take a decade for him to get that nom, though. Five years, tops, or I will have to write a very stiff letter to The Academy.
But I don't think that'll be necessary:)
Thank you for choosing my Chris Pine question, Nathaniel! I enjoyed reading your answer. :)
Regarding Jennifer Lawrence, I don't see her star waning so soon. But even if she reaches a dry spell, there is always time to rebound. For example, Julia Roberts had a dry spell during the mid-90's then came My Best Friend's Wedding and it was like "Bam, Julia's back!" Also, Sandra Bullock. She reached her dry spell in the mid-00's then she had the one two punch of The Proposal and The Blind Side and suddenly, she became bankable again.
'Rooney Mara', totally agree with your thoughts on JLaw. I, too, thought Oscar nominations/a win were supposed to count for something.
Also, I love Rooney Mara!