Smackdown '17: Allison, Laurie, Lesley, Mary and Octavia
Monday, February 26, 2018 at 11:15PM Presenting Oscar's Chosen Supporting Actresses of the Films of 2017.
THE NOMINEES
Two mothers with combative relationships with their daughters (Janney and Metcalf). One sister/business partner (Manville). One mother struggling with oppressive farm life (Blige). And one cleaning lady (Spencer) whose coworker/friend is mute and in love with a fish crea... listen, it's a long story!
But here's a beautiful thing that's too little remarked on this season: they're all actually supporting characters. No leads masquerading as support for once!
From top left: Andrew Carden, Chris Feil, Candice Frederick, Erica Mann, Kevin O'Keeffe, and Nathaniel R
Here to talk about these five nominated turns, are in alpha order: Andrew Carden (Awards Connection / Gold Derby) Chris Feil (The Film Experience), Candice Frederick (Reel Talker), Erica Mann (NYC Film Chick), Kevin P O'Keeffe (Into) and your host Nathaniel R (The Film Experience). And now it's time for the main event...
2017
SUPPORTING ACTRESS SMACKDOWN
Mary J Blige as "Florence Jackson" in Mudbound
Synopsis: The wife of a farm hand, whose claim on the land has been ignored, struggles with the weight of a son at war, and oppressive poverty which forces her into tough compromises.
Stats: 46 yrs old, 5th film, 1 of 2 nominations this year (also up for Original Song)
Andrew Carden: As I reflect on 2017 in film, few scenes tug at the heartstrings like one quiet, tender moment in Mudbound. It's the one where Jason Mitchell's Ronsel, back home from World War II, visits with his mom (Blige) on the porch. He's brought back with him a chocolate bar, which Blige's Florence presumes is to be shared by the whole family. Alas, it's all for Florence and the look on her face as she takes a bite of that sweet candy couldn't be more full of pleasure and love. Blige may be the most limited actress of these five but she's splendidly directed by Dee Rees and has several wonderful moments in the film, albeit no other quite as affecting as that one. ♥♥♥
Chris Feil: The downside for Blige is that the film isn't as interested in Florence's headspace as it is nearly everyone that surrounds her. Blige is modest throughout, making Florence a stoic presence, squelching all feeling in an effort of self-preservation. But when emotion does crack the surface, always in a flash before she stifles it yet again, Blige takes your breath away. She does a lot with very little, but I've left the film on each watch wanting to know more of what's behind Florence's blank expression and sad eyes. ♥♥
Candice Frederick: You know when actors say that when they saw themselves on film, they were unrecognizable? That’s something that Blige should be able to boast as well, now that she literally disappeared in the role of a mother just trying to keep her family together amid extreme circumstances in the WWII south. Still, while this was quite the achievement for her, I kept thinking about what a more skilled actress would have brought to the role. That often took me out of Blige’s performance. ♥♥
Erica Mann: Oh, Mary, Mary, Mary. My beautiful chanteuse of heartbreak and pain. Mary is a natural performer so, I wasn’t surprised that she was able to pull off this wonderful performance. The role required a lot of restraint while also exuding a massive amount of strength, worry, and anguish. I never saw Mary J. Blige the Grammy winner. I saw Florence Jackson - the formidable matriarch who holds her family together. ♥♥♥
Kevin P O'Keeffe: Florence is compelled by a mixture of empathy and obligation, even when what's asked of her is to her detriment. Blige gets at the mixture of warmth and steel that this requires, but the multi-narrator format of Dee Rees' film limits how much she's able to do. Still, she doesn't just feel like a music star passing through: This is invested work, as committed to telling Florence's story as the rest of the ensemble. ♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: Personally, I endorse the somewhat controversial Mudbound scheme of putting Blige front and center of the campaign, despite a small role. When I heard objections on the Las Culturistas podcast that she ‘does nothing’ in the movie I quipped “but she does it with so much resonance!” See, that stifled still quality, she know any choice could backfire in such a hostile environment, is especially riveting in such a busy movie (so many narrative threads!). She gives the movie its wary homefront soul. ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Those of us who listened to "My Life" on repeat back in the 90s knew she could do strong-in-the-face-of-tragedy better than just about anybody" - Sam (Reader average: ♥♥)
Actress earns 18 ❤s
Allison Janney as "LaVona" in I, Tonya
Synopsis: An abusive sarcastic mother pushes her daughter to become an Olympic champion. She doesn't quite cheer her on when she gets there.
Stats: 57 yrs old, 61st film, 1st nomination.
Andrew Carden: God Bless Allison Janney. She is an unimpeachable treasure of the stage and screen, deserving of the plethora of Emmys she's secured over the years. But she's not even the best supporting actress in I, Tonya (that being the reliably brilliant Julianne Nicholson). Janney fails to transcend Steven Rogers' haphazard screenplay, which gives Margot Robbie and Sebastian Stan the best roles of their careers but leaves Janney saddled with the decidedly less fleshed-out monster mama LaVona. The performance never moves beyond caricature, as Janney hits the same harsh notes in every scene. How is she running away with this?! ♥♥
Chris Feil: While she wouldn't make my five, I think folks have been rather reductive about this performance. Obviously the comedy is very broad, but I'm impressed by the scarily familiar impenetrability of Janney's cruelty as LaVona. There's an underlying warmth to all of Janney's work that doesn't creep in here and when LaVona does try to play considerate, Janney makes it so glaringly false as to reveal the woman's self-absorption. The structural device of the interviews intends to show us the many faces of Tonya, but doesn't Janney also reveal another stranger LaVona reaching for the spotlight? ♥♥♥
Candice Frederick: First of all, Janney has been great for years, even in her small but important role in Juno. She’s just the bee’s knees. So often we talk about redemption in vile characters, but with Janney’s performance here she is relentless and unapologetic. There’s something refreshing about that. Her quieter moments are equally compelling as she brings a startling blend of resentment to a very hateful character, creating subtle layers that you least expect. ♥♥♥♥♥
Erica Mann: Janney was really fantastic as Tonya's mother. It's very easy to get swept up in the theatrics and ridiculousness of the character (the fur coat, the large-rimmed glasses, the bird, etc.), but Janney also brings a performance that is riddled with anger, bitterness, and an insane level of psychological (and physical) abuse. You keep waiting for some sort of redemption from the character, but Janney never lets you forget what an awful person she's playing. ♥♥♥♥
Kevin P O'Keeffe: This breaks my heart, because I'm an Allison Janney fan from The West Wing on. But LaVona is a caricature, spitting venom and curse words for shock value rather than any build toward a more fully fledged person. Janney is a force to watch on screen, but it's frustrating to watch all that energy directed toward a hollow performance. LaVona only looks more shallow in comparison to Margot Robbie's Tonya, so focused on intimate details over broad strokes. ♥
Nathaniel R: She’s a ham and a half here, a ham that’s gone bad. I mean that as a compliment (mostly). Though one could fault her for show-boating that is in character. That said, I don’t think Janney the Entertainer and Janney the Character Actress are always communicating. She’s terrifying when she stops trying to make you laugh as this loveless selfish mother who fancies herself selfless. She’s hilarious when she is going for laughs. But it’s maybe two different performances. Both are watchable, though! ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "I wish she would have less dialogue. She's great when she's just staring." - Peggy Sue (Reader average: ♥♥♥)
Actress earns 21 ❤s
Lesley Manville as "Cyril Woodcock" in Phantom Thread
Synopsis: The rigid sister and business partner of a famous fashion designer doesn't quite know what to make of her brother's new muse. Just don't let it get in the way of business!
Stats: 61 years old, 27th film, 1st nomination.
Andrew Carden: Oh, how this picture and the stilted and soulless romance between Daniel Day-Lewis' Reynolds and Vicky Krieps' Alma left me restless. That said, Manville is absolutely divine! She steals all of her scenes (albeit not the most arduous task here), often with a mere, delicious glance. It's really her Cyril, not Reynolds, who's the spellbinding one in this film (well, ditto Harriet Harris' incredible Barbara Rose cameo), so what a shame Paul Thomas Anderson is preoccupied with his dud of a duo. It's a richly deserved nomination for an actress who deserved to win an Oscar nearly a decade ago. ♥♥♥♥
Chris Feil: She functions similarly to Amy Adams all-seeing, no-bullshit handler in Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master, both somewhat unknowable women who show you exactly who they are every time they speak. She's a delicious distillation of Phantom Thread's perverse hilarity and grave seriousness, a withering power dom that's both over it and affectionate like the soothing sting of acupuncture. I would like Manville to similarly eviscerate me over morning tea, please. ♥♥♥♥
Candice Frederick: On the surface, Manville is a remarkable version of an ice princess. Scratch that, an ice QUEEN. She’s pristine, astute, and literally the only woman in the film who looks patriarchy in the face and spits on it (gracefully, of course, while sipping tea). A testament to Manville, Cyril at first seems complicit to the misogyny that runs rampant in her boss’s home. But once it’s hurled in her direction, she immediately balks and checks Reynolds (Daniel Day-Lewis) so hard that it made me even flinch. Cyril is not the feminist you’re expecting; she’s the feminist we need. ♥♥♥♥
Erica Mann: There’s nothing I love more than a subtle performance that just knocks it out of the park. Cyril Woodcock is an absolute legend and it’s all due to Lesley Manville’s ability to convey so much with a simple look, one-liner, and smoothing of the hair. It would’ve been so easy for her to be overshadowed by Day-Lewis, and yet she manages to not only hold her own, but completely steal the scenes. One of my favorite performances of the year. ♥♥♥♥
Kevin P O'Keeffe: Cyril is no fucking joke. Amid all the bluster from Reynolds and the surreptitious scheming of Alma, it's Lesley Manville's serious as a stone sister who stays lodged in the consciousness long after the movie's over. She'll sure as hell run right through you — that's no empty threat. I want a whole Cyril spinoff series. I want Cyril's tea time. I want a Tabatha Takes Over-esque Bravo series for Cyril. Manville makes a meal out of morsels. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: Her time with Mike Leigh taught her well. Even if Cyril’s interiority remains a mystery to us, Manville has worked it out. How else would she convey so much formidable stone despite that tiny svelte frame? Her voice barely registers a pulse even when threatening destruction and you still believe it. I love the abrupt surprise when you learn that she actually likes Alma. That’s how impenetrably guarded she is. That said, I did need Manville to give us one tiny peek behind her great wall. Sequel? ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Watchful and fierce, you're never quite sure who's side is she on or what she's thinking. " - Alex (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥)
Actress earns 28 ❤s
Laurie Metcalf as "Marion McPherson" in Lady Bird
Synopsis: A psychiatric nurse struggles to support her whole family when her husband loses his job and her stubborn argumentative daughter refuses to listen to reason.
Stats: 62 yrs old, 27th film, 1st nomination.
Andrew Carden: How is she not winning this?! As a Roseanne superfan, I have long been enchanted with this sublime actress but, even her past performances considered, Lady Bird has the feel of career-best work. Thank heavens for Greta Gerwig for writing the rich and real Marion McPherson and knowing Metcalf would kill in the role. The performance feels completely lived-in, with she and Saoirse Ronan ringing so true as mother and daughter. All awards season, I have been hoping Metcalf will join the likes of Jane Darwell in The Grapes of Wrath, Eileen Heckart in Butterflies Are Free and Olympia Dukakis in Moonstruck, among others, as one of the great mom portrayals to win this Oscar - Academy, please don't let me down! ♥♥♥♥
Chris Feil: So many of Lady Bird's character's express their take on Marion. What Metcalf achieves is a woman who is all of those things described and her own person mysterious to all of them. The film reflects on the mystery of parents to their children, but Metcalf shows the opposite is also true in how she wrestles with the pushes and pulls of Marion and Lady Bird's relationship. Sure it's the movie that's causes the "call your mother!" response, but it's Metcalf performance that compels you to actually pick up the phone. ♥♥♥♥♥
Candice Frederick: Honestly, out of all the roles Metcalf has played, I am shocked that this is the one that lands her her first Oscar nomination. But, here we are. She’s just very…typical here. But, since we seem to be grading on a scale here, a lesser actress would have made the role of a mom trying to steer her fiercely independent daughter in the right direction far more insignificant. She reminds me of my mom in that sense, but still I feel very disconnected from her character because her story just doesn’t stand out. ♥♥♥
Erica Mann: I adore Laurie Metcalf. No matter what role she’s playing, she always brings authenticity to her performances. It’s very difficult to play a maternal character that so many people can find relatable. It's not the flashiest role, but Metcalf was truly able to encapsulate the struggles of motherhood. I thought she was absolutely superb ( and I totally called my mom afterward and apologized for being such a little shit growing up). ♥♥♥♥♥
Kevin P O'Keeffe: To be frank, it's a frustrating performance for me to watch — not because Metcalf isn't good, but because she's almost too good. She captures this maddening mother in such specific detail. I want to love Marion as much as Marion loves Lady Bird, but I'm terrified to reach the level of inner turmoil that haunts this warm-but-scary Sacramento woman. She'll go extreme for her daughter, even if it's not what Lady Bird wants. Mother knows best. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: There’s something about the perpetual downturn of that mouth that makes you laugh and cry simultaneously -- a handy feature for an actor equally skilled in dramatic and comic registers. In Lady Bird her comedy emerges offhandedly from the drama — one gets the feeling Marion wouldn’t like to be thought of as “funny,” even though she unleashes real zingers. The neatest trick is the way Metcalf makes Marion’s tense demeanor and harsh tongue something of a self imposed tragedy. She has enormous amounts of love to give and it's killing her to keep withholding. ♥♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "In degree of difficulty, success with her role, and enriching the script without breaking from the movie's quietly ambitious goals, she wins this by a country mile." - Nicholas (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥)
Actress earns 30 ❤s
Octavia Spencer as "Zelda Fuller" in The Shape of Water
Synopsis: A cleaning lady, already protective of her mute co-worker, gets in too deep when her friend plots to rescue an imprisoned creature from a government lab.
Stats: 47 yrs old, 65th film, 3rd nomination (with one previous win).
Andrew Carden: Unlike this category's front-runner, Spencer takes her underwritten role and breathes some real vitality into it. Sure, she's always playing second banana to Sally Hawkins and never really gets an Oscar clip (though her confrontation with Michael Shannon toward the end comes close) but, per usual, is never anything less than a pleasure to watch. ♥♥♥
Chris Feil: Like Janney, I think this performance has also been viewed in unfairly simplistic terms and it's odd that Spencer is still taken for granted. Does the film work as well without her effortless humor cutting the tension and playing audience surrogate, or do we believe Zelda's willingness to help Eliza without Spencer making her feel so unfulfilled? Of all of The Shape of Water's loners, hers is the most subtly drawn. Isolation and loneliness doesn't always look so somber as Eliza's - sometimes it's frustrated, overly protective, or simply won't shut up. How does Spencer have chemistry with everyone? ♥♥♥
Candice Frederick: On the one hand, I love that Spencer is taking on roles in genre films like this one and Snowpiercer, but she remains such a pivotal character. As fantastic as Sally Hawkins as the lead here, I couldn’t help but imagine Spencer in the role—a black woman playing a mute heroine in a beloved fantasy romance directed by Latino filmmaker Guillermo del Toro. Instead, Spencer plays the sidekick. But, there is one scene in which she stuns, when Zelda is paid a visit by the movie’s antagonist Strickland (Michael Shannon) and she must somehow keep her worried husband at bay and Strickland off her back. Other than that, though, I was left wanting more. ♥♥
Erica Mann: I’m actually quite surprised about this nomination. Out of all of Spencer's roles, this is the one that I felt the most underwhelmed. Octavia does a great job as she usually does, but this performance wasn’t anything spectacular or memorable. Her character was essentially there to support Sally Hawkins and push her storyline and the film didn’t really give her a lot to do to really stand-out amongst the rest of these nominees. ♥♥
Kevin P O'Keeffe: We've seen Octavia Spencer do this before, and better, in The Help and Hidden Figures. But there's something reliably enjoyable about her presence. She welcomes the audience in to giggle at a strange situation between her friend Eliza and the fish man, making playful jokes. But she never betrays her friend's trust, and stays loyal in the face of frightening external forces both physical and societal. Probably didn't deserve an Oscar nomination, but she's solid. ♥♥
Nathaniel R: “Eliza!” Whenever I think of Eliza I think of the way Zelda sharply shouts her name and muscles her around in their shared time clock line. She’s always the mother hen sternly (but warmly) accounting for her wayward chick. Octavia is such a trouper that she can make anything work, including the switch where this otherwise no-nonsense type risks her life because her friend happens to be in love with a fish man. And that's not nothing but when is a filmmaker going to challenge her? ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Honestly, the actress is more fascinating than the character." - Tom (Reader average: ♥♥½)
Actress earns 16½ ❤s
We'll find out who takes the Oscar this Sunday but, though, Lesley Manville put up a strong fight, the Smackdown goes to... Laurie Metcalf
We hope you enjoyed the Smackdown!
Want more? a companion podcast will arrive tomorrow.
Previous Smackdowns ICYMI: 1941, 1944, 1948, 1952, 1954, 1963, 1964, 1968, 1973, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1984, 1985, 1989, 1995, 2003 and 2016 (prior to those 30+ Smackdowns were hosted @ StinkyLulu's old site)
NEXT UP? The monthly Smackdown series returns in mid-April just after the "early bird April Foolish Oscar predictions" for 2018's films. 1970 and 1994 are the next shortlists we'll investigate.
Reader Comments (54)
Yay!
It's like Christmas morning! A new smackdown! And the one I wanted to win actually won!
1970! And I just saw Cactus Flower for the first time!
This Smackdown result was just as it should be. Manville just barely losing to Laurie. Both of them brilliant performances. I'm just happy that Oscar recognized that both.
^ Ugh, I just realized I googled "1970 Best Supporting Actress" and of course it gave me the results for *1969,* including Goldie Hawn. Stop doing that, Google.
Easy choice - Janney gets my vote.
Outstanding performance in THE most exciting motion picture of the year!
Well deserved finish! Metcalf and Manville are also my favorites in the category.
I couldn't agree more with Kevin on Janney, I too love her, but she could have given her I Tonya performance in her sleep!
I'm gonna be reading these write-ups all night, probably. Especially love what Kevin said about Metcalf, who was so the hardest of the nominees for me to write about. Can't wait for the podcast tomorrow! And thank you for quoting me! (Also, if I wanted to attach a link to my write-ups on another site, how would I do that?)
Well ranked, everyone!
Thank you for quoting me! I haven't gotten a chance to see all the nominees yet but I hope to remedy that very soon.
My choices:
1. Manville
2. Metcalf
3. Janney
4. Spencer
5. Blige
Nick you can use the code below the "post a new comment" that says some HTML allowed. the link code is the code below. and then you close it with a < / a > (without the spaces) Or you can just copy and paste the full url though that requires more effort on the readers part as they'll have to copy and paste it again.
Can i just say "it hurts my ears" everytime i hear someone I don't like.
Manville wins hands down why is no one high on Kripes or Day Lewis in this,Metcalf 2nd but only a tiny way back and then 3rd Hong Chau a tiny way back then 4th Pfeiffer a bit back and then 5th Blige who was given far nicer write ups than I expected,No noms for Spencer or Janney.
Nat I totally agree with on Octavia can a director challange Spencer then she'll be worth the 3rd nomination,she's like this decades Glenn Close,she was tired of motherly roles so actively pursued Fatal Attraction which in 87/88 was HUGE deal back then,i'm sure twitterchat would have a field day with the amount of offence people would feel for others,Spencer should do the same,no more stoic friends with warm praise and witty mouths.
I'd love to contribute to 94 but where the hell do you find Tom and Viv,I'm in the uk with only ordinairy free channels.
Nathaniel - So URL | Words the url is attached to ?
Nick - yes. you're using the "a href" thing...
Manville, of course, with Metcalf in a close second, but I am perfectly ok with Janney winning.
Janney is the exact type of actor who knows everybody and wins as soon as she gets the chance, no matter how good is the performance. Like J.K. Simmons. Or, for example, John Goodman - the moment he gets a nomination, he wins automatically.
(This only happens in supporting. You may have a lead nomination, like Melissa Leo, but it only happens if it is a supporting nomination)
I love Janney, just not in this movie, but I'll clap very hard when she wins.
I love hard-working character actors that get the spotlight for once.
1970 and 1994! Wow! Curiously enough, in both years there were two actress nominated for the same film.
1970:
Karen Black (Five Easy Pieces)
Lee Grant (The Landlord)
* Helen Hayes (Airport)
Sally Kellerman (M*A*S*H)
Maureen Stapleton (Airport) **My favorite**
1994:
Rosemary Harris (Tom and Viv)
Helen Mirren (The Madness of King George)
Uma Thurman (Pulp Fiction)
Jennifer Tilly (Bullets over Broadway)
* Dianne Wiest (Bullets over Broadway)´**My favorite**
I love them all, but see I actually rank Spencer #1, because out of all the scenes of all the actresses here, her scene with Michael Shannon and her husband is the one that has stayed with me the longest.
But this category is so good and my (often arbitrary) ranking of the contenders would be:
1. Spencer
2. Blige
3. Janney
4. Manville
5. Metcalf (but oh how it hurts to put her in a fifth spot, but it's hurt to put ANY of these performances in a fifth spot).
This just reminds me of how badly Hong Chau was snubbed... :(
'94 is going to be much fun. Expecting some very high scores for 4/5 of them.
Thanks for another great smackdown.
I tend to prefer the supporting actress category for this kind of thing, but 1970 and 1994 are two years where I think best actress was an even more interesting race. Of course 1970 as a whole was such an unusual thing - that both Women in Love and Fellini Satyricon produced Best Director nominees, that's hard to imagine from today's viewpoint.
My ranking:
1. Metcalf
2. Manville
3. Blige
4. Janney
5. Spencer
I know Janney is the runaway right now, but I keeping hoping that it's a closer call with Metcalf (and that a split vote leaves Manville like Marcia Gay Harden on Sunday night...)
Thanks for another great smackdown. All went as it should, imho!
Octavia Spencer's subsequent nods are all superior to what earned her the first win. I hate The Help. You know something's wrong with your civil rights era movie when the white actresses outshine the black ones.
I'm excited to see my quote here, but it's not the one I felt most proud of. Which was also for Manville, 'Mrs. Danvers would be proud."
Surprised at the high praise some of the write ups give Metcalf without giving her the 5 hearts. This turned out as it should be, Metcalf winning with Manville behind.
Still hoping the Academy makes the right call. Sorry Allison, still love you.
I tink Metcalf still has a good chance o being the spoiler, IF Oscars voters ditched the herd mentality n vote w their hearts!
Lady Bird HAS to win somewhr n this is its best chance!
Still hoping Janney wins the Oscar
Manville > Metcalf > Spencer > Blige > Janney. But they are all great. Not a bad performance in the bunch.
Laurie all the way! My favorite performance of the year. Kevin, thank you for beautifully articulating why Allison must not win. A bad cartoon.
I’m happy with the results because I’m very close to who’s better between Manville and Metcalf. Blige I’d great too even if I preferred Mulligan in the same film. Janney avd Spencer I could do without and win Janneys likely win it means that the only main actors from The Help ensemble not to have an Oscar are Jessica and Bryce. How in gods heaven does Emma Stone have an Oscar before Jessica?
I’m excited for 94 because I’ve recently seen Tom & Viv and that Harris nom makes no sense. I’ve not seen Mirren yet and the Byllets women are brillant. I’ll also be interested in discussing Thurman and Tarantino in light of the Thurman article about how their working relationship ended. The films success and how it lifted Harvey up might also have to be addressed. I’m. Also excited for 1970 as I’ve only seen two of the performances which I love a lot. I’ve not seen Landlord or Airport so I’ve a lot to look forward to when that year is finally looked into.
1-Manville (And that says a lot since I didn't care for the film AT ALL but for her)
2-Janey (all the Janey hater stop! she hilarious AND heartbreaking, my in laws are from the south and I've meet plenty of bigger & weirder people in real life)
3-Metcalf (great actress great role she nailed it but I think Ladybird is overrated (A my gonna be ban from this site for writing this? But I do)
4-Blige (Love love love Mary J I taught she did a superb job)
5-Octavia Spencer (Never got the whole Spencer worshipping I mean she's fine but soooo average and limited as an actress)
Spencer is A+ in her big confrontation with Michael Shannon at the end of the movie. Honestly, probably the best acting of her career, and I think the performance itself is underrated here.
I would probably give this to Metcalf, however I am not angry at Allison Janney winning. I'll be happy to see her as an Oscar winner, considering what a great career she has had.
I'm actually sad that Laurie Metcalf is not steamrolling. I really thought that Oscar would be hers. I love her performance. Her and Sairose are so tender.
Spencer is at best (at best ) a B she's usually a C
Are we honestly going to pretend that Blige and Spencer deserved their nominations? Spencer was fine but not nomination worthy. Blige!? Come on now.
It's tokenism at its worst to prevent any oscarssowhite misteps. They should have gone with Haddish who was legitimately GREAT.
See, I loved Octavia Spencer in The Shape of Water. It's not the kind of role that typically gets awards attention at all, so I was thrilled that the Academy honored her work with the nomination. Her role in the film is to provide an auditory cue for the shifts in Elisa's character. Everything is fine if Zelda is doing her usual rambling monologue about work and her husband and life in general. Something has changed significantly if Zelda discusses any other subject or, strangest of all, isn't heard anymore.
Film is primarily a visual medium. The function of Zelda's character is to help guide the focus of the audience for a film with a mute protagonist. Octavia Spencer is one of the best actors we have working who can make the most mundane dialogue sparkle onscreen. Then, in the few moments she's given anything significant to do--the encounters with the boss, demonstrating the hiding spots on the loading docks, her eventual compliance with Elisa's plans--she's marvelous.
A lot of the joy of the character comes down to Spencer herself. She is an extremely charismatic presence onscreen, expressive and innately skilled at reacting in believable and non-distracting ways for the screen. She does more with a little smirk than a lot of actors do while screaming out emotional monologues.
With all of that said, I'm Team Janney. I really enjoyed the acting in I, Tonya and thought Janney handled the ridiculous material the best. The character could very easily be one note yet Janney finds new and interesting ways of building dimension in what would be nothing more than a dramatic foil in lesser hands. I'm okay with any of the nominees winning, too, as I think they all did great work.
@RobertG I completely agree with you on Spencer.
Love that we finally have a supporting category where each nominee is an actual supporting player. Metcalf is by far and away my number one. I have yet to see PT but thru the clip or two that I've seen from Manville, I can understand the love she's getting.
I don't have an issue with Janney's performances. I think it is the tone of the movie to be quite honest. My issue with her grabbing all the acclaim is that I expected every beat change, every choice and every line reading from her (minus her Oscar clip moment at the diner with Margot). That's not to say I don't like the performance, I just think Metcalf's is a lot more colorful and deserving.
I bet we'll see LaVona and her bird on a Snatch Game on Drag Race one day.
1. Metcalf
2. Manville
3. Janney
4. Spencer
5. Blige
Cosign the last two commentaries re Octavia. Some are just not giving her enough credit. She adds so much to the overall feeling found in TSOW. That last scene with Shannon is perfectly played and launches the movie's climax.
I didn't vote in the reader write-in because I saw I, Tonya the day after voting closed. Having seen it, my vote is now more firmly with Metcalf than ever.
I really got the chance to see all of Lesley Manville's range the week Phantom Thread opened in France three days after i saw her as Mary Tyrone in Long Day's Journey.
In the play she was nothing but SPECTACULAR, speaking and speaking and speaking (which kinda reminded me of her unforgettable character in Another Year)
In the movie i was slapped in the face by her icy silences and terrifying glances...
When you can ace BOTH performances, you deserve at least ONE Oscar.... Please Academy, make Manville 2018's surprise !!!
Not to mention Manville's tour de force in the second series of the BBC's 'Mum'.
I just rewatched Drop Dead Gorgeous.... wish Allison could have been recognized for THAT instead.
Amen, Santy!
I read an interview where Janney said she still gets recognized more for Drop Dead Gorgeous than any other film.
My heart is with Metcalf. My mom is a nurse. I graduated two years after Ladybird did. We fought a LOT.
RobertG, what a fabulous appraisal of Spencer. When I first saw the movie, I felt it was a role she could do in her sleep, but you illustrate why Zelda is so important to make the film work. Jenkins is sympathetic, but Spencer is really the surrogate for us as the audience.
Do you guys think any of the nominated actresses have ever read their snackdown?
Janney! Janney! Janney! Some performances just give a film a wild jolt of life. It's so nice to see a character actress get such a meaty performance and chomp in.
I really like Metcalf and Manville, and Spencer is just great in this performance. She fits this kind of role so well. I get how the love for Metcalf is kind of "It's like I'm giving my mom an Oscar!" and that's fine, but Janney is a league above these (great) performances.
As for Blige, she's in Mudbound and that's about it. Mulligan is better in the film. Would have loved to see Rosamund Pike's underrated performance in Hostiles get some attention.
But 80% great is pretty good for an Oscar line-up.
I'd echo RobertG on the complexity, or at least the value of Spencer's work here.
I will say, of all the performances, I am surprised the consensus seems to be that her role isn't challenging. The way Zelda works in the film, and the requirements the script makes of her, I think in terms of difficulty it's definitely removed from Spencer's previous nominations and even the better performances in this category. I believe a closer assessment of the film, and Zelda within, argues that her overt chattiness (just like with Elisa's other confidante) is a mask for her own loneliness as Chris suggests. The conventional chattiness, although the most noticeable part of her performance isn't the complete performance. Zelda's talking reads so much like a deliberately performative bit for Elisa, and herself, versus all the moments where she stops talking (being reprimanded by Mr Fleming when the creature first arrives, her grimacing at her boss on the smoke break, having her middle named "explained" to her, that "you do that Yolanda"). It adds context to the potential sameness of her rambling elsewhere, that gives the entire performance a lot more depth.
The "talkative" Zelda mode is telegraphed so much as a performative part of her life to get away from her own isolation. It's why I think she's the final character whose home life we see. When it comes, it hits hard and she sells it. (Also completely with Aaron on that final Shannon sequence being, perhaps the best of her career.)
That being said, Lesley Manville for everything but specifically for that scene where she offers the dressmakers a chance to use her phone to call their families.
I'm squarely Team Janney and rooting for her on Sunday. Of course Metcalf wins this given the site's obsession with "Lady Bird," but at least Manville was close to winning too. Haven't seen Blige and was underwhelmed by Spencer. Really would have included Haddish here in the roster somehow. This would have been radically different with her in it. Even Hunter or Chao would have had solid support in other years, I think, just not this competitve one (in a nominee's sense).