Interview: Dolly De Leon (Triangle of Sadness). She's the captain, now!
Tuesday, January 17, 2023 at 9:31PM by Nathaniel R
Dolly De Leon
Dolly de Leon didn't know what was coming when she auditioned for an international feature from Swedish auteur Ruben Östlund, pre-pandemic. Two plus years later, thirty-one years after her film debut, she was an international hit, winning best in show reviews for his latest feature Triangle of Sadness. No small feat given that the film won the Palme d'Or at Cannes. Even after the film's splashy premiere the kudos kept coming for Dolly's work. In recent months she's been up for the Golden Globe, the Dorians, the London Critics Circle Film Awards, and other prizes. She also shared the Supporting Performance win at the prestigious Los Angeles Film Critics Awards in a tie with Oscar's Best Supporting Actor frontrunner Ke Huy Quan.
We had the pleasure of spending time with her at the Middleburg Film Festival earlier in the season. We enlisted the help of our own TFE contributor Juan Carlos Ojano to prepare for our interview, since he's well acquainted with the film industry in the Philippines. In our conversation we talked about her experience doing her first intimate scene, whether or not she expected Triangle of Sadness to blow up, and her dream role for the future. But we started our conversation by showing her a picture from her very first movie that Juan Carlos sent us as an ice breaker; Ice successfully broken!
Dolly, centered, in "Shake Rattle and Roll III" a horror franchise in the Philippines
[This interview has been edited for length and clarity]
NATHANIEL: Dolly, is this you?
DOLLY DE LEON: Oh my god that’s me. I was 18 or 19. This was Shake Rattle and Roll III. Oh wow. This was directed by Peque Gallaga, a very good director from the Philippines, but he passed away.
NATHANIEL: It brings back memories.
DOLLY DE LEON: I'll never forget it. It was my first ever film.
I heard through this same friend, via the Filipino film industry grapevine, that you’re a dream to work with.
This is so good to hear. You know, Nathaniel, I really try to be as kind as possible on sets because it's really tiring for the crew. They’re more tired than the actors.
That's a good segueway into Triangle of Sadness because you're playing a crew member!
A perfect segueway. You caught that.
One of the things that's most interesting to me about your role is how we first meet her. I was giggling throughout that scene. I used to work in the hotel industry.
So you’re familiar with the service industry?
Yes. I knew a lot of housekeepers and what kinds of things they dealt with. I love how you sort of like slide into the movie inconspicuously. When you read this script, did you know that Abigail was going to be this big breakthrough for your career?
I knew it was so much more than what I normally get to play. So I knew Abigail was special, the part was special. I knew people would notice But I didn’t think the movie was going to be getting the kind of reception it’s getting now.
You’ve only watched it once?
Dolly's first appearance as "Abigail"
Yes.
And you noticed me right away!? A lot of people didn't notice it was me knocking on the door of the cabin. I think that was the point Ruben was making. She’s very nondescript. You hardly notice her. I kind of felt bad about that when I was reading the script, because I felt like Abigail needed more scenes. [Laughs]
That's the actor talking, right?
That's the ego talking. But then watching it finally, in Cannes. It made more sense. You hardly notice her. She's someone who people don't really treat like she's a human being. She's a tool that they use on a ship to get things done. There's no real human interaction with her. For her to turn everything around on the island, I knew that that was something special. I knew Abigail was going to get some kind of attention as a character, but not the way it’s happened. I didn't expect this at all.
Did they seek you out for the part or was it a normal audition process?
Nathaniel, No one seeks me out. I'm not even kidding. I auditioned with many other Filipino actresses. They flew in their casting director. She held auditions for I believe, three or four days, to meet with many actresses. I went in with just the sides on me of Abigail's three main scenes. I didn’t know the entire story but you could get a sense. I only did one audition. The next step was to meet with Ruben on Skype. He wanted to know if any of us were fun to work with, because Ruben really works his actors hard. He works us to the one.
A lot of takes?
He works actors really hard. The least amount of takes I ever did for a scene was eight. And it was a super short sequence. The most I ever did was like sixty or something.
Oh, wow.
...For one scene. So I guess he wanted to see if if I was up to speed with that kind of process, if I had the right temperament. If maybe I didn't have an attitude problem.
With Ruben Östund at Cannes. Photo: Vianney Le Caer/AP
Mm-hmm.
He didn't tell meI was chosen but apparently I got the part already that night on Skype! I only found later with an official email. This was pre-pandemic so it was on Skype. I had a whole set up in my house, my kids helped me. We all set up a table with lights by my laptop to make sure I looked good for for the audition. But it wasn’t really an audition. It was like a job interview.
More of a conversation?
He didn't make me act anything. It was more fleshing out the character. How did I perceive Abigail? How does he see her? To see if we met eye to eye.
Did you know at the time that he was a famous auteur?
Yes, I did. Yes. In the Philippines with cinephiles he’s really very well known. People don't know this, but the Philippines is -- we love films. We have festivals for art films. He's part of that scene. So when I heard that he was holding auditions my first instinct was, ‘He's such a big name, I'm not gonna get the part!’
You were wrong!
Immediately I was intimidated, but at the same time I was like, oh my gosh, this is, exciting stuff
The end of the film basically rests on you, which is a huge responsibility for a supporting role. What was going through your head that day, acting that out?
I was nervous every single day on that set. It was never easy for me. It was like setting foot on stage for the first time every single day. I was always very nervous. I had to do things like meditating just to calm myself down. When I’m nervous I get dehydrated so I would always have water with me and things like that.
I had to play a very strong character and physically I’m very small, right? Compared to all my co stars who were tall. I mean, if you look at the Cannes photos, I look like, you know from... what's it called... "Mordor"?
A hobbit with elves? [Laughs]
Yes! It was really very intimidating. I was terrified every single day and scared to death, It's just my insecurity. We had a workshop in Sweden before I even flew out to Greece. It was a whole afternoon of doing scenes, running the scenes with Ruben. And then when we got to Greece, I did some improvisation with Harris Dickinson.
That made it a little easier for me. It lightened the burden but it still didn't take away the fact that I had to play this very strong woman who, who was surrounded by very powerful people. So it was a huge challenge. On my first day on the island, that was weighing heavily on me. When we ended that day Ruben said, ‘Okay, you look very powerful.’ I was like, ‘Yes!!!’ [Laughs]
This just shows how talented you are, honestly, because there's nothing about that character that comes across what you're saying about feeling insecure. The power shifts totally make the last act! She's intimidating!
Wow. Thank you.
How was it working with such an international cast?
We got along so well. I think it's because we all were very passionate about our jobs --we shared that commonality among us. We were all from different countries: Philippines, Germany, France, South Africa, America, Sweden, Denmark, UK. It's funny how we're all divided by geography, but if you really think about it, there's really not much of a difference because we all shared that same passion and desire to come up with really good work. We knew we were doing something important and we all had that common goal of, of making sure we were doing everything right and supporting each other the whole time and being kind to each other. I love all of them and I'd like to think that they love me too. We were on that island for six weeks and we were like a family.
The bulk of your scenes are with Harris Dickinson. He's such a good actor, but I think people haven't realized how good he is yet because he's so traditionally beautiful.
Like Brad Pitt!
And that scene in the lifeboat with him! Such a good scene.
That was the scene that we worked on together for our improvisation. We had a day to just do that one scene with Ruben. You know I had just met Harris that day and we had to do that! But you know it's really easy to work in an environment with a co-actor who shares the same vision as you. He's a professional. He has no ego whatsoever. He doesn't think about his looks. He likes downplaying that as much as possible.
I was really nervous about that scene because I had never done an intimate scene before. The good thing is we were able to sit down and talk about it. I really needed some time with him to flesh out everything about the scene and talk to him about boundaries. Where can I touch you? Where can't I touch? What am I willing to show? Things like that. We laid the groudnwork clearly and when you're working with someone who has a great respect for their coworkers everything else is easy.
That's great to hear. Because that's a crazy thing to be thrown into with your first time meeting, meeting -- doing a type of scene you haven't done before.
That was for the improv. By the time we shot it we had become friends and were hanging out as a group, you know. They kept pushing it and pushing it and pushing it back I don't know if they did that on purpose. By the time we were filming it we were very comfortable with each other by then. But that first improv the day I met him. That is so awkward!
I'm sure. Triangle of Sadness has been such a big success. Are people sending you scripts now?
Well, you know what, I have been getting scripts! So far I've read a few and I'm interested in one but nothing that's really getting me really excited. I'm hoping that will come soon because I'm looking forward to working.
You wanna build on the success, obviously, of this too.
I won't lie, I do. I want to work outside of the country for a change because I've been working at home for more than 30 years there -- tv, film stage. Not that I don't love it, of course I do, but the learning becomes more rich when you're exposed to different cultures and experience different ways of working.
Okay we need to wrap up so a quick fire few fun questions. If people were programming a mini Dolly de Leon festival. In addition to Triangle of Sadness what are you most proud of?
Dolly de Leon in "Folklore: 7 Days in Hell"
I'm really most proud about Folklore. it's a horror anthology series on HBO. I'm in the second season on the fourth episode. Each episode from a different director in a different country. I'm in the Filipino one directed by Erik Matti who I've worked with before.
Oh, he directed On the Job: The Missing 8? The Oscar submission from the Philippines.
Exactly. Yeah. That episode of Folklore it's called "Seven Days of Hell ". Another film I'm proud of is Verdict, written and directed by Raymond Ribay Gutierrez. He's very different. There's no script so he just says the scenario and all the lines are improvised and the camera follows you around. It was a really interesting and exciting way for me to work. The third one is The Kangks Show, a comedy series. It's for a streaming platform and I'm in the pilot epsiode. I'm really proud of that one because it's funny. When I was younger I was doing comedy but I wasn't really doing it well. I had so much fun with that.
Since we're talking about your future -- what is your dream project? What would you like to do that you haven't been able to show in your career?
Honestly I don't have a dream role. But I want to play a character that inspires people to think about themselves and whatever journey they're going through emotionally. And a story that can affect change or that can inspire people to look at the world in a different way. It can be a satire, or a drama, or a comedy. To me, the genre doesn't really matter. And with a director who's very collaborative and very generous. That's the thing with Ruben...
It sounds like your dream project is Triangle of Sadness. That's going to be hard to follow up!
Oh, it's so hard. How? How??? So I would like to go as far away from Abigail as possible. I definitely would not like to play another OFW (Overseas Filipino Worker) only because I've done that already.
Maybe I would like to play someone who's already very powerful but has a very low sense of self-awareness? Maybe she's not very bright, but she thinks that she's bright. That would be an exciting thing to play because I've never played anyone like that. Somehow who is deluded and thinks they're fabulous but they're not!
I will buy tickets to see that movie, Dolly. It was such a pleasure to talk to you!
Nathaniel and Dolly at the Middleburg FIlm Festival this past October.
We first met Dolly De Leon in October at the Middleburg Film Festival. Triangle of Sadness is available to rent online from most services. It won the Palme D'Or last summer at Cannes and won four European Film Awards last month. It will be on Nathaniel's Top Ten List (coming very soon).
Reader Comments (7)
'You know, Nathaniel, I really try to be as kind as possible on sets because it's really tiring for the crew. They’re more tired than the actors.'
Ok, nominate her just for that
As someone who works in film, to read her saying "I really try to be as kind as possible on sets because it's really tiring for the crew. They’re more tired than the actors." feels revolutionary because how come I've never heard an actor say that before???!
I wish TOS had more enthusiastic support from Hollywood.
If the cast had bigger names I think it'd be regarded as one of the event movies of the year.
Thanks for interviewing Dolly, Nathaniel! But I wish you'd take better care to spell "Philippines" right. You spelled it wrong twice in this article and have done so several times in previous ones. Thanks.
So she, Hong Chau & Steph Hsu are in the hunt for the last 2 spots in Best Supp Actresss.
Metink Hsu is looking pretty safe for the 4th spot now w the love for EEAAO and the exuberance she displayed at Critics Choice award . So the last spot is really between Hong & Dolly.
If The Whale cracks best pic, Hong will likely get it (I believe quite a few no. of voters wld recall her snub 5 yrs ago for Downsizing).
If ToS cracks best pic, then Dolly shld likely come along w it.
Ronald - apologies
Juan Carlos - thanks again
DK -- i also wish it had gone over better in Hollywood. Or maybe it went over well and we'll find out with Oscar nominations. At least it was a success at US arthouses.
PP92 & Lucky -- right? I rarely hear actors say anything like that though they sometimes thank them.
Such a lovely read. Rooting hard for her to score that Oscar nomination.