Smackdown '00: Chocolat, Billy Elliott, Pollock, and Almost Famous
Thursday, May 20, 2021 at 8:07PM Welcome back to the Supporting Actress Smackdown. Each month we pick an Oscar vintage to explore through the lens of actressing at the edges. This episode goes back to the turn of the millenium, when Almost Famous, Pollock, Billy Elliot, and Chocolat were new in theaters and the following actresses were having a moment...
THE NOMINEES 2000 provided a bevy of possibilities in the supporting actress category but Oscar ignored the gifted comediennes (Parker Posey in Best in Show and Elaine May in Smalltime Crooks), the foreign divas (Catherine Deneuve in Dancer in the Dark and Zhang Ziyi in Crouching Tiger), indie darlings (Lupe Ontiveros in Chuck & Buck) and even women in Best Picture contenders (Catherine Zeta-Jones in Traffic, Connie Nielsen in Gladiator). What they came up with instead was an almost eerily archetypical shortlist which included five different kinds of traditional Oscar-friendly roles: long-suffering wife, feisty grandmother, manic pixie dream girl, mama bear, and the tough mentor. The mix of actors was also super traditional: Oscar voters invited back two recent previous winners (Judi Dench and Frances McDormand), one returning nominee (Julie Walters), and welcomed to the club one rising character actress (Marcia Gay Harden) and a golden child of Hollywood (Kate Hudson).
THE PANELISTS Here to talk about their performances and films are (from left to right) actor Nicholas D'Agosto (Trial & Error, Masters of Sex), journalist Kyle Buchanan (New York Times), actress Vella Lovell (Mr Mayor, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend), and from The Film Experience, Eric Blume and your host Nathaniel R. Let's begin...
SUPPORTING ACTRESS SMACKDOWN + PODCAST
The companion podcast can be downloaded at the bottom of this article or by visiting the iTunes page...
JUDI DENCH as "Armande Voizin" in Chocolat
Synopsis: A stubborn sickly grandmother reunites with her grandson through the help of a kindhearted chocolate-shop owner.
Stats: 66 yrs old, 22nd film, billed. Third nomination (of an eventual seven). 14 minutes of screen time (or 12% of the running time)
Eric Blume: Dame Judi doesn’t stretch in any way here, and not much is required of her in this role of Cantankerous Codger, French Village division. She doesn’t even attempt to be the slightest bit French, but she finds a winning rapport with Juliette Binoche, and she plays her small arc with a subtle grace. She has one moment, when her grandson unveils his drawing of her, where she touches her fingers to her face, and we don’t actually see her reaction… but Dench does more with her trembling hand than most actresses could do with a tight close-up. ♥♥
Kyle Buchanan: Dench is perfectly fine in this minor role but it’s hard to believe she even would have been singled out were it not for her Shakespeare in Love win two years prior. If the Academy just had to give this slot to someone from Chocolat — and they really, really didn’t have to — then why not Lena Olin, who at least brings some wild-eyed verve to this too-tidy fable? ♥♥
Nicholas D'Agosto: There’s no reason to take anything away from Judi Dench’s performance in this movie. She’s charming, compelling, grounded and pitch-perfect on her comedic timing, as always. It’s just not anything extraordinary. It’s not her fault. It’s not in the script. It felt to me as though she was given a nomination simply for playing a role that required her to be rougher, bawdier and lower class in ways opposite the many roles that have made her famous… … But you know who did deserve a supporting actress nomination from this film?? Lena Olin as Josephine Muscat!! How the hell did the Academy think it was worth it to not only pass on her performance, but to give a nomination to a less deserving role from the same movie? ♥♥♥
Vella Lovell: I mean, it’s Dame Judi Dench in one of my favourite feel-good movies. A consummate performer. She subtly elevates the movie. Her physical acting work is impressive—she somehow feels twenty years older than she did in Cats, and this was filmed twenty years ago. In this movie, she’s supposed to have severe diabetes, and the way she moves communicates that her whole body aches and it’s almost impossible to travel thruough space. She’s also always fighting internally with herself—her desire for love and community combating her strained relationship with her daughter and her terminal illness, while still innocently discovering joy and sweetness in old age. She sheds layers of her shell in every scene. You love her character and want to embrace her, yet you know she would swat at you and curse at you, all the while secretly enjoying it. I love her in this movie. Again, it’s Dame JD, what else do we expect? ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: I giggled the second Dame Judi showed up. I had forgotten that she was playing a Frenchwoman and that we meet her after we've already met the French star, and an American actress attempting a French accent while playing Dench's onscreen daughter. Dench just shoos and side-eyes any expectations of reality (and we are in a fairytale anyway... so: fair). She plays it exactly as written -- ornery, stubborn, and old... with a secret heart of gold. Any good actress of Dench's age could have done it just as well but she is touching when she lets the ice thaw. Not because she thaws but because of her own discomfort and embarrassment that she has; it's the one insighftful punch of this performance. ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Love her but there is nothing subtle going on with this performance" - B.K. (Reader average: ♥♥)
Actress earns 15 ❤s
MARCIA GAY HARDEN as "Lee Krasner" in Pollock
Synopsis: A struggling artist attaches herself willfully and indispensably to a rising genius, becoming his wife and also, in effect, his publicist and manager and mother. He needs, he needs.
Stats: 41 yrs old, 17th film, 2nd billed. 1st nomination (of an eventual two). 46 minutes of screentime (or 37% of the running time)
Eric Blume: Harden’s duet with Ed Harris is acting heaven: two magnificent performers who rarely get material this meaty, bringing out the best in one another. Instead of trapping herself in this stock supporting actress role of Long-Suffering Wife…she makes that her jumping off point. You see the choices the intelligent, talented Lee Krasner makes to push down her own dreams to support her boy/man husband, and Harden fills in the gaps on the whys. You fully know where Lee is emotionally at all times, and that’s rarely due to the script. Harden’s work is authentic in every way: the Brooklyn accent, the frustration, the patience, the broiling rage, the exhaustion. Her magnetism is off-the-charts: I think this may be one of the Best Supporting Actress wins ever. ♥♥♥♥♥
Kyle Buchanan: This is one of my very favorite Oscar-winning performances and not just because Harden’s last-minute nomination, followed by an out-of-nowhere win, can provide a glimmer of hope to contenders who’ve been unjustly overlooked. (After SAG and the Golden Globes snubbed Paul Raci, I remember murmuring, “He can still pull off a Marcia Gay Harden!”) Very few great-man biopics make this much room for the wife and you’d expect even less from Pollock given that the star is also directing, but Ed Harris wisely lets the majority of scenes be steered by Harden’s funny, ferocious, and flat-out fabulous performance: You understand why Pollock loves her because Pollock loves her. Harden is handed a lot of exposition and scene-setting biopic dialogue and through sheer force of personality, she makes you believe a real person is saying every single one of those lines. She's so vivid in the role that by the end, you realize you’ve actually been watching a movie about Lee Krasner all along. God, she’s good! ♥♥♥♥♥
Nicholas D'Agosto: It’s telegraphed from the moment she enters, knocking on the door, full of the desire to insert herself into Pollock’s world — she will be the energy and hope, as well as lifeblood and anchor of this movie. Pollock is manic, cruel, loathing and self-loathing. He is difficult, to say the least, and he was a difficult man for me to live with in even just these two hours. How did she do it for decades? MGH’s “Lee Krasner” is reminding us of the answer again and again - Jackson Pollock was a true genius. In scene after scene MGH plays the adoring fan, the stern or fawning manager, the time-keeping or cooking or unconditionally loving mother. Only at brief times do we get the moments where they are lovers. It’s a heartbreaking tapestry of a woman who devoted herself to a man and talent who would never truly honor her or what she did to bring his gift into being… I marveled at the many quick scenes, packed to the brim with meaning and emotional explosiveness. The “You need, you need, you need…” scene is probably the lynchpin of these breakneck blowouts, as well as what most likely earned her the Oscar. As I reflect more on how integral she is to the story, I wonder if she should have been nominated in the leading actress category? ♥♥♥♥♥
Vella Lovell: I was so glad to see Marcia in a role like this so early in her career. She’s harsh, is working with a sharp, accented energy, is playing a headstrong and intelligent woman who puts a mans' needs completely before her own—so her two scenes where she loses her shit are extremely enjoyable and cathartic. While I take issue with this being considered a "supporting" role (she's clearly the second lead of the film), I appreciated her performance. ♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: What a thrill ... force. From the moment we first spot her, trying to wedge herself into Pollock's doorway she owns the film\. Watch any scene and you'll find something to admire but my favourite is a beat that would be easy to miss as Lee realizes Pollock has finished a mural, painting the whole night while she slept. There's a flash of a satisfied smile that's inspired and just perfect. She's excited to see it but it's also her triumph as his ultimate champion, effortfully pushing him towards just this kind of breakthrough. That ultra-severe helmet of a haircut, might have done a lesser performer is, but this is a face you want framed so tight it hurts... just in case the camera misses anything. Just about the only thing Harden can't sell is that groaner line "you've cracked it wide open" that follows the movie's paint-splatter origin story misstep. ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "I was worried that a re-watch would dampen my love for this performance, but I was so glad to be proven wrong– Harden is stunning. POLLOCK? More like KRASNER." - Aditya B. (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥)
Actress earns 26 ❤s
KATE HUDSON as "Penny Lane" in Almost Famous
Synopsis: A teenage groupie -- she prefers the term "band-aid" -- tours and shacks up with her favourite band, dreams of moving to Morocco, and fascinates a young rock journalist.
Stats: 21 yrs old, 6th film, 3rd billed. 1st and only nomination. 26 minutes of screen time (or 21% of the running time).
Eric Blume: Hudson is saddled with the quintessential Dream Girl role, which was grossly popular from straight white guy directors during this window of filmmaking. Penny Lane is meant to be a lot of things: a real person, an idea, an ideal, and a romanticized representation of first love. That’s a lot for a 20-year-old actress to take on, but Hudson does manage to be all of those things in individual moments. Scene to scene, she delivers Cameron Crowe’s vision of this character, but somehow it doesn’t all come together coherently. He’s smart to lean into Hudson’s effortless natural charm, and she’s affecting in a Hollywood-movie way, but she never fully lands as a human… everything feels played at, rather than lived in. ♥♥
Kyle Buchanan: The Oscars love a transformative role but I’m happy whenever they nominate someone simply for radiating megawatt movie-star charisma — isn’t that so much of what we go to the movies for? In fact, I’d argue that Hudson is so winning here that it makes the film’s romantic entanglements more than a bit lopsided: She’s the only one in the movie who genuinely feels like a 70’s icon, and any of these men would have been lucky just to follow her from city to city. ♥♥♥♥
Nicholas D'Agosto: I’ll admit I went into this viewing with low expectations for Kate Hudson’s performance. Why? Did I mistakenly associate her career as consisting entirely of rom-coms? Did I think the success of the movie was going to be a tide that lifted all boats? I don’t really know. I was wrong. She just kept winning scenes in ways that surprised me. She made believable the unrelenting ephemerality of the character, embodied Penny’s guardian angel persona with determined brightness and empathetic care, and showcased a relatable broken heart through a character that for much of the film moves like air. Her truth is shifting from moment to moment, and when William says to her “I can’t keep up with you,” I understood him. I delightedly couldn’t either. ♥♥♥♥
Vella Lovell: Her performance is—not to use this word to death, but—iconic. It just is. It is so pure. She has unfiltered, raw energy and the acting channels are open. She has that sweet, playful smile and she does this thing with her mouth where she acts like she’s kind of scrutinizing you—like she’s wise beyond her years, and then she gives a little wink and it captures some essence of youth and adulthood smacking each other in the face, and it punches you right in the gut. The iconic scenes in this movie—Penny Lane with the fur jacket and sunglasses, Penny in the "Tiny Dancer" singalong, Penny using leftover streamers to glide across an empty school gym floor—the sadness, pause, single tear, and smile before she quips back “What kind of beer?” I think this is the best thing Kate has ever done. ♥♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: I felt sure that this would be the performance that would age most poorly from this movie and I was wrong. While Penny Lane has all the traditional impossibility of the 'dream girl' role which is 'be an idea and an ideal and a real person and (in this case) a memory' she's also somewhat freed by it. Given the task Hudson doesn't have to have technically perfect acting or even paint a cohesive portrait (though I wish it were, particularly in the back half of the movie where the writing around her character gets wonkier). Mainly she has to glow and enchant and above all else be believeable as a totally indelible figure in a young man's coming of age, which she handily accomplishes. She's best in her scenes with Patrick Fugit, where she can work at this most crucial task plus dig in to the dichotomy of being both 'the older woman' and way too young for the life she's leading. ♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Effortlessly charismatic. Two decades later and Hudson’s performance has not lost any of its appeal and I was again rocked by her magnificent work." - Eoin D. (Reader average: ♥♥♥)
Actress earns 21 ❤s
FRANCES MCDORMAND as "Elaine Miller" in Almost Famous
Synopsis: A professor and mother worries that her children are growing up too fast and that they'll join the drug culture of the 1970s
Stats: 43 yrs old, 22nd film, 2nd billed. Third nomination (of an eventual six. 1 previous win). 12 minutes of screentime (or 10% of the running time.)
Eric Blume: Similar to Hudson, McDormand delivers on Crowe’s vision of the mother character, who he wants us to see as prickly and difficult, but he (and McDormand) also want us to love her at every moment as well. On one level, McDormand gives the movie a brisk comic vibrancy and a fresh set of alternate beats to the main action. But she spends 80% of the movie without acting against another actor, so we rarely see any dimension to Mom, who ultimately remains a movie character without ever becoming real. McDormand is so skilled that she carries you over this limited role, and she’s always fun to watch. ♥♥
Kyle Buchanan: There are seven actors in history who have won more than two Oscars, and as far as I know, Frances McDormand is the only one of them who has also posed with a lit joint on the cover of High Times. I say this not to take anything from her performance in Almost Famous, which is filled with wonderful little grace notes like the flash of regret on her face whenever she alienates the children she’s trying so desperately to encourage. Still, I must confess that whenever her character panicked about drugs, I never actually bought it. Cameron Crowe had Meryl Streep in mind for this role, and it shows: You'd accept Streep as a rule-minded, abstemious mother, which is partly why her bathroom toke in It's Complicated carries such a naughty pop-cultural charge. ♥♥♥
Nicholas D'Agosto: How many ways must we praise the legendary Frances McDormand? So real, grounded and intelligent. So soulful, present and kind. In this character she somehow both conveys the “before” of our protagonists’ sheltered, rigid world, and yet creates a home that not only our protagonist wants to return to, but one in which other characters who are searching for what is “real” and “true” in life find resonance. She has grown, too, throughout the story; but it’s her dependability that is rewarded at the end of a film where dependability is in scant supply. The phone call scene with William is sweet and heartbreaking. And the phone call scene with Russell reminded me of the Liam Neeson “I will find you” phone call in TAKEN, except Frances did it eight years earlier and instead of death she threatened him with wisdom! ♥♥♥♥
Vella Lovell: Frances is such a pro. Such a specific, crafted character that I think in someone else’s hands could have come off as a caricature. Instead, she fills the screen with her complex, three dimensional, oddball, totally original performance. She really tethers the movie as the sole force pulling William away from just melting into band life. She feels real and lived in. She’s also perfectly hilarious in this movie. ♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: "My son has been kidnapped by rock stars!". First things first: McDormand is hilarious in this movie. But the role. If she couldn't bring that McDormand authenticity and innate and intimidating moral superiority to it, this anxious mom would have no weight and be even less believable than she is (would an over-protective mother be this okay with sending her kid off on a rock tour?). As frustratingly slight as the role is, I looked forward to each tiny cameo on the telephone. And that bear hug to her estranged daughter near the end is so perfect I almost threw in an extra heart. ♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "McDormand does wonders with this ultimately sitcom-y character, succeeding in making her believable and real, no small feat. " - Robert K. (Reader average: ♥♥♥¾)
Actress earns 18¾ ❤s
JULIE WALTERS as "Mrs Wilkinson" in Billy Elliot
Synopsis: An unhappy woman finds a new purpose when a talented boy wanders into her girls ballet class. She takes him under her wing.
Stats: 50 yrs old, 15th film, 1st billed. Second nomination. 22 minutes of screentime (or 20% of the running time.)
Eric Blume: Walters couldn’t be better in this film, finding pockets for humor, pathos, and depth. In her first scene, she tells us what we need to know: she’s so bored teaching yet another batch of young girls that she has to talk and joke to herself to get by. She makes you believe that the presence of a young boy reignites this woman, and that he makes her think about new chances. She doesn’t overplay the “steely teacher” clichés inherent in this genre, and instead keeps things straightforward and direct. She plays stunningly off young Jamie Bell, where you can see that this seasoned actress feels inspired that the child actor opposite her is The Real Deal: they help each other in all of their scenes. She really would have been a worthy winner this year. ♥♥♥♥
Kyle Buchanan: The masterstroke of this performance is what it doesn’t give you, so let’s start with what you do get: Walters gives you world-weariness, belted jumpsuits, some excellent Cigarette Acting, and a wonderful, let-it-all-out dance number where she matches the ebullient Jamie Bell step for step. And then, at the end of the film, when our hero is accepted into ballet school and rushes to tell his teacher, you're expecting her to dissolve into happy tears. Instead, Walters cuts you off at the knees: Her pupil is leaving and that means she’s stuck in place. Her response is clipped and wounded and she gives Billy and the audience absolutely nothing. It’s such a shockingly real response, and I love that this movie, which is so desperate to crowd-please, allows her to have that final moment and never, ever walks it back. ♥♥♥♥
Nicholas D'Agosto: I loved this movie. The story was rich with character and life; the cinematography was smart and often surprising; the soundtrack was epic, informative and fun. Julie Walters benefitted from the quality of the piece as a whole. Certainly, she was lovely. The car scene, where she drops Billy off, showcased all her best colors at once - she was honest, kind, empathetic, charming, devilishly funny, and caring enough to see this young boy as a comrade. I thought this scene was foreshadowing a greater arc for these two, but we didn’t get quite as much as I expected. There’s the joyful and hilarious dance scene, and there’s the rough and gritty fun of the kitchen scene where she comes to confront Billy’s father, but mostly she’s the task-master we get at the beginning, and I didn’t find her to be entirely compelling in that role. I think the story wanted me to feel a deeper sense of bitterness emanating from her, a discontentedness, a person made hard by her regret (Billy says as much in the bathroom stall scene), and I just couldn’t shake the feeling that those elements of her performance felt a tad forced, or even absent. She was best in the car; relaxed and fun and wise and full of optimism. ♥♥♥
Vella Lovell: An incredibly inhabited role. Absolutely insane prop work—the cigarette is glued to her hands for most of the film. She is so dry and grounded in this film, and completely stays in her lane, she doesn’t try to push or do more, yet she is the catalyst for the whole plot of the movie. She is a true “broad.” Her pleasure and generosity while teaching Billy is heartbreakingly juxtaposed to when he tells her he’s leaving for ballet school. He says “I’ll miss you,” and she bluntly says “No, you won’t,” before smoking and returning to class again. She very plainly and openly embodies all the teachers that pour their energy into students, only to have them say goodbye. This is one of my favorite films and it makes me sob every time I watch it. She’s understated, underrated, and truly a gem. ♥♥♥♥♥
Nathaniel R: I had misremembered this movie, reducing it over the years to an easy crowdpleaser and feel good drama. The film that's sitting right there twenty-years later is significally better than that, though it is also that. The truly tough working class drama elements are (mostly) offscreen but Walters especially brings it into the frame with her. It's there in her hard exterior, the chain smoking, and even the way she jokes or responds to something funny, a smile tempting her mouth but she's too worn or wary or dulled out to grin. The only time we really see her let loose is in the presence of Billy as his audition approaches and they dance together. Her life finally has purpose and drive. And joy, too... though that's reserved for her physicality in the longshots. My heart just breaks for her at film's end when she underplays her exit and removes herself. We've gotten too close and this will hurt her more than us. (I love Harden's work so much but given that it's a leading role my vote goes to Walters in this lineup.) ♥♥♥♥
Reader Write-Ins: "Ever delightful. Her skillful playing of spiky dance teacher Mrs. Wilkinson, a character that could have easily become a caricature, adds so much to the film and Billy’s journey." - Joel6 (Reader average: ♥♥♥♥)
Actress earns 23 ❤s
RESULT: Harden was the surprise winner at the Oscars though it made perfect sense in retrospect. Here at the Smackdown, she also takes the prize with chain-smoking Walters in honorable mention position.
In the reader polling alone, the battle for the win was more intense than amongst our talking head panelists. Harden/McDormand/Walters were actually neck-and-neck-and-neck throughout as your ballots came in. Harden still managed the win but just barely with Walters just a half-a-heart away from pulling off a surprise upset. If you played along at home and voted, '...thank you for watching the tapes.'
THE FULL PODCAST CONVERSATION
Download at the bottom of this post 👇 or on iTunes to hear the in-depth discussion with our marvelous guests. [All Previous Smackdowns]
Reader Comments (67)
For me:
1.McDormand, she only needs a phone to be funny.
2.Walters, she has a wonderful chemestry with Jaime Bell.
3.Harden, she almost steals the movie from Ed Harris.
4.Dench, she's a fantasti actress and she does what she can with a so-so screenplay.
5.Hudson, she's good but her character is really annoying.
Other options:
1.Zhang Ziyi
2.Jennifer Connelly (Requiem...)
3.Catherine Zeta-Jones
4.Lupe Ontiveros
5.Kate Winslet (Quills)
So many options to remove Dench with, and I would’ve gone with either Catherine Zeta-Jones in Traffic or Ziyi Zhang in Crouching Tiger. Still, among these 5, it would be a narrow win for Hudson over Harden.
Oh.. forgot about Jennifer Connelly! The only reason she won the next year was for this Requiem snub. If nominated, she’d have my vote.
I'd swap out Dench for one of a handful of other actresses, but overall I really like these performances. Not a bad year at all.
Absolutely loved reading these write-ups, and looking forward to listening to the full conversation!! I'm very pleased that Harden triumphed here (though I agree, she is a lead), and am not surprised that the competition was thick until the very end– this is a fairly strong lineup. I will say I'm a bit shocked that the panelists gave more hearts to Hudson than McDormand, but it was interesting to hear varying opinions about those performances in particular. Thanks again for another great smackdown!
My own Best Supporting Actress lineup for 2000:
1. Eartha Kitt, THE EMPEROR'S NEW GROOVE
2. Parker Posey, BEST IN SHOW
3. Zhang Ziyi, CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON
4. Alfre Woodard, LOVE & BASKETBALL
5. Catherine Deneuve, DANCER IN THE DARK
The woman who opened a door to a very lost kid will always get my vote.
Surprised to see McDormand’s performance not that well received. For me, she crafts such a prickly, funny, torn and totally believable character in a role that could’ve easily been a joke in lesser hands. She’s the only person for me in the movie who really seems to embody an actual human being (though Crudup comes close) instead of an idealized figure. Her style is perfect counterbalance to a film that can feel too wispy and sentimental at times and her phone call scenes are the high points of the movie. She’s easily my runner up behind the absolutely deserving Harden.
Unfortunately due to work/family/travel I wasn't able to watch all the movies and participate this time. But as always I enjoyed the write ups. Can't wait to hear the podcast.
This isn't one of my favorite movie years or line-ups, though all the women offer strong work, but this was fantastic reading with wonderful insights into the performances.
My choice would be Julie Walters and I'm delighted that she came so close to snagging a surprise win but I expected Marcia Gay Harden to come out on top.
My ballot:
Judi Dench-Chocolat-A nice performance in a nice movie. Nice should not be good enough to win an Oscar. 2 ½ hearts.
Marcia Gay Harden-Pollack-She’s a strong presence when she’s on screen but this was such a sour viewing experience, I’m afraid my misery watching it influenced my opinion of her work. 2 ½ hearts.
Kate Hudson-Almost Famous-Her brief bright shining moment on the movie screen. She seems to travel surrounded by her own shimmering essence. So much promise, she seemed poised to effortlessly assume Mother Goldie Hawn’s mantle, but it was not to be. She’s dear and touching and owns the screen when she’s in the scene. 4 hearts.
Frances McDormand-Almost Famous-She’s a fierce Mama Bear grounding her scenes in a reality that is necessary to balance the alternative milieu of the film, but I would have rather seen her here for her work in the same year’s Wonder Boys. 3 ½ hearts.
Julie Walters-Billy Elliott-Ever delightful. Her skillful playing of spiky dance teacher Mrs. Wilkinson, a character that could have easily become a caricature, adds so much to the film and Billy’s journey. 4 ¼ hearts.
All good work but my choice would be the unnominated Catherine O’Hara in Best in Show.
Love the results, MCG deserves her Oscar and she's my favorite of the year. I would have all the Oscar nominees minus Dench and sub in Jennifer Connelly.
Ziyi Zhang and CZJ are close behind
I was hoping Walters would edge out Harden but alas, t'was not to be! (fyi, I love Harden, but yeah, I dock her a point for being a lead and not supporting). Thanks for using my comments about McDormand above, always a nice little treat. Anyway, what a great Smackdown - I look forward to listening to the podcast tomorrow - if the participants are even half as engaged and enthusiastic as they are here in print it'll be a pleasure to listen to them. Onward to 1946: that's one *wacky* set of movies to watch (and not always in a good way)! Thanks, Nathaniel.
Dench didn't need to be nominated, but a really solid lineup otherwise.
I'm glad Kate Hudson's performance was reevaluated because I think it lost some respect over the years as her career went in another direction than initially expected.
I admit I haven't seen Pollock--though I do believe Marcia delivered, I still wish Julie Walters had won the Oscar. It was just the perfect mix of movie/actress/role for me and she's a respected vet with a previous nod. She adds so much heart to that movie.
Aw, y'all are hard on McDormand. I frankly loved her, even though I agree the writing of her character in AF wasn't always completely coherent (or do I mean cohesive), and I would say Hudson just edges her with an extra hint of pathos. But "Rock stars have kidnapped my son" wins across the board for best line delivery.
Walters is great - love how completely unsentimental her performance is. She just barely edges Hudson for that reason.
Harden is formidable in Pollock, but I do see hers as more of a lead role...although it's arguable. Her character's position reminds me a bit of Viola Davis' in Fences, in that they're both wives who - at least as written - have subsumed themselves & devoted their lives to supporting their husbands. Yet they have so much power in their presence they feel like leads, even if their characters have effectively denied themselves that role.
Couldn't be bothered to rewatch Chocolat. <snooze> And your writeups, even the most positive ones, don't make me feel like I missed much! Truth be told, until the Smackdown was announced, I'd totally forgotten Dame Judi was even in the movie.
And I should have led with this, but great job, panel!
oooh, interesting results. I did not expect Frances McDormand coming in fourth place. For me, she's easily second best to Marcia Gay Harden.
I'm also now rethinking my placement of Harden in the supporting category. She does actually make sense as a lead. I'll have to rewatch (again) to decide.
Such great commentary on all five performances. Jennifer Connelly and Catherine Deneuve should have been in the mix. Thrilled Marcia Gay won this.
It would have been iconic if Kate had won for a hippie ingenue role just like her mom.
My god Kate Hudson is beyond luminous in Almost Famous, I love it when actors get nominated for sheer movie star charisma, so she’d get my vote.
What a shame she never came close to giving a performance like that again.
I’d walk to the end of the earth for Judi Dench, but that spot belongs to Catherine O’Hara.
First of all: Vella Lovell is SUCH a talented actress! I wish her continued success - she was so, so brilliant on Crazy Ex.
Anyway, Not surprising to see Marcia Gay win this one; it was such a big performance and her win was an even bigger moment. I will always have a soft spot for Julie Walters in Billy Elliot, though. I saw that movie with my mom when it came out in theaters and we both bawled our eyes out - it remains such a special moment in my life. I hope there is still time left to give Julie Walters an Oscar. What a true talent.
One of the all time best episodes of the podcast. Such fantastic guests with brilliant, specific insights into these performances. My only complaint is that it could've been an hour longer! Haha. Just brilliant. The Walters love surprised me, but in the best way. I think all are excellent, aside from Dench who is fine but not noteworthy, but not a terrible inclusion by any means. Fantastic work Nathaniel!
Pollock is insufferable no matter how much you love Marcia
Thoughtful and insightful comments by the panel both in print and on the podcast. Kudos to all of them for making me laugh about Billy Crudup's cheekbones.
Back when these films came out I was very much in love with Kate Hudson's performance in "Almost Famous". I wanted Kate to win. While I respected Marcia Gay Harden's work, I was so sick of supportive wives, I was shocked when she won the Oscar.
Now I think Julie Walter's was robbed, her work in "Billy Elliot" is truly a supporting performance and it was perfect. (Billy Elliot is a film that improved the most for me on re-watch)
My order now is: Julie Walters, MGH (but she is lead), Kate Hudson, Francis McDormand, and Judi Dench.
Co-sign Judi Dench's nomination to Catherine O'Hara for "Best in Show".
I’m kind of surprised that there seems to be such a unanimous consensus that Marcia Gay Harden was a lead in Pollock—I think she’s firmly in “borderline” territory, and while I would probably place her lead, I don’t think this is such an obvious case of category fraud as a lot of others here are suggesting.
And then I’m seeing some of those same people suggest Zhang Ziyi as a potential alternate nominee in this category, and unless I’m totally misremembering, I think she’s even more of a lead in Crouching Tiger than Harden is in Pollock.
Sans Hudson, this is a pretty fabulous lineup. I think I'm actually partial to Dench. :)
Call Marcia for the next podcast!
Jennifer Connelly, Requiem for a Dream
Jennifer Coolidge, Best in Show*
Marg Helgenberger, Erin Brockovich
Parker Posey, Best in Show
Catherine Zeta-Jones, Traffic
Definitely a Walters voter from the line up, though I'm glad Harden has an Oscar.
Great podcast, great panelists, all of them terrific. My already existing crush on Vella has been further strengthened.
I'm so glad that Harden justifiably won. (I'm not sure why Vella Lovell ranked her last, though - behind Dench.)
I agree that McDormand was second best in this line-up, with Hudson third. Cameron Crowe's women are always underwritten; it consistently bothers me about his movies (he did not deserve that screenplay Oscar - it should have gone to Erin Brockovich). But I think McDormand is able to rise above the stock properties of her role, more than another actress would.
Some of these proposed supporting actress line-ups in the comments are interesting, to say the least. If they were the real line-ups, there would be a lot of justifiable outrage, here on TFE and elsewhere, that Harden and Almost Famous women were omitted. Catherine Zeta-Jones should have taken Dench's spot, though.
Thanks for putting together another great smackdown..
Btw, the writing and comments above make me think it'd be fun to have something on which of the women in Best in Show was best in show (they're all great fun, but apparently there's a fair bit of variation when it comes to people's favorites).
This is one my favorite categories to look at with hindsight.
Looking back, it is so clear how much of the Dench nomination was due to goodwill after the Academy finally started to recognize her work, and I'd argue the SAG win was because the body felt guilty over not giving her an individual win yet and she had just done similar "looser" work in Oscar overlooked Tea with Mussolini the year before.
McDormand, as is now clearly often the case, has such strong industry support that she can get a nomination for literally phoning it in (heh) but still doing strong work, with another more tightly wound role in contender Wonder Boys that same year boosting her profile among Academy members.
I'm still amazed that the "discovery" of Kate Hudson flamed out as quickly as it did post-Globe win (with her nomination for Music this year feeling like it somewhat tarnishes that deserved win) and I still think she would have been a very deserving winner.
I'll never not love Julie Walters in anything she does and, even though the "crass but lovable" thing she does feel somewhat like a retread in Billy Elliot, she makes it work and being oddly one of the few females in a ballet-centric movie helped her stand out.
But Harden's win has and continues to be a shining light. An oft-overlooked performer winning for playing an oft-overlooked artist really felt like poetic justice. The movie is indeed an actors showcase, but, for the chance to see Harden really do her thing it is totally worth it. This is a true case of utility player breakthrough, with, after some moments of recognition in the early 90s (Cage announcing her "claim to fame" as "Tony-nominated" says it all there), she thankfully had something she could sink her teeth into that was thankfully seen by Academy members. The struggles of the art world don't often get attention (the only other real life story I can think of is the Lifetime movie about Georgia O'Keefe, with the gender roles from Pollock essentially reversed), but Harden being an actors' actor really paid off here. I'm glad she then also went back to the stage to get that Tony for God of Carnage and, considering she has spent most of her career in television, I am still amazed she hasn't triple crowned yet!
Even the other contenders (the late Ontiveros, the underrecognized until the following year Connolly, the steady May (who thankfully got her moment at the most recent Tony awards), and the breakthrough Zhang) all delivered solid performances. Even future winners Winslet and Zeta Jones would have been welcome additions to this lineup. If only all years could be like 2000!
NathanielB -- not only has MGH not triplecrowned despite lots of television, she's only been nominated twice and not in any high profile roles (unless COURAGES HEART OF IRENA SENDLER was big back in 2009... yes 2000 had lots to choose from.
everyone -- i keep hearing O'Hara cited which reminds me also of how Oscar voters vote. when they love you they love you. At the time nobody was talking about O'Hara for Best in Show but the 'best in show' mentions were for Jennfier Coolidge and Parker Posey (both of whom are still better than O'Hara in that movie though O'Hara was the MVP of other Guest movies -- a mighty wind and for your consideration) but neither of them just had a 'give her everything' awards run like Catherine O'Hara just did.
\BVR -- i was surprised by the marked contrast in the response to McDormand. In reader voters she came in a veryvery close third and at one point she was even leadding. but the panel (including me) wasn't that into her.
Replace Dench and McDormand with Jennifer Connelly and Catherine Deneuve. That would have been an amazing line up!
Agree with Vella and Nathaniel, Harden's role is not really supporting. My first choice is Walters, from among these nominees, but I agree with several suggestions above that there could have been even better performances to choose from.
Compared to some years, I didn't care that much who won.
Nathaniel - Absolutely true that all the ladies in "Best in Show" are divine, and while your millage may vary, please remember..."God Loves a Terrier". (just saying)
Of course in the real world, such a nomination would never happen, but it's fun to dream.
Thanks again for all the work you put in to arranging these.
LOVE, love Marcia win, she so deserved it. But it is a so so line-up, really don't get the McDormand & Dench praises, I would've gone like this:
Marcia Gay Harden
Jennifer Connelly
Zhang Ziyi
Julie Walters
Catherine Zeta-Jones
Now, that's an exciting line-up.
The 2000's gave us a handful of perfect Supporting Actresses winners: Jolie, Gay Harden, Connelly, Zeta-Jones, Weisz, Swinton & Cruz.
I would've given it to different women in 2004 ( Aghdashloo), 2005 (Linney), 2007 (Blanchett).
Harden is someone that I think could have been in lead or supporting that year. Had she been a previous winner or even had a few nominations under her belt, it's easy to see her going lead. I'm fine with her placement here, and I really love her win.
However, I'm a bit surprised that Frances placed so low. I think this is one of my favorite nominations of hers. She brings so much to Almost Famous when she really didn't need to. It's really a case of an actress sinking her teeth into a role and bringing it, and the entire film, to life. I don't think the film would work the same without her, specifically
That Parker Posey is stil Oscar Nominatedless is one of the Academy (Many, many, many) atrocities ...
I like Walters but if anyone seen her abundent British TV back catalogue will know this role was no stretch,same Julie mannersims and line readings,Harden is 1 of the best winners ever and she is supporting,Hudson was far far better then I remebered and Dench NO NO NO,Olin is better.
MY Ballot
Harden
May
Zeta Jones
Connelly
McDormand
Dench is fine, but noting spectacular, Olin is better in the same film
Harden is supporting, does a great job
Hudson is better than I remember, puts each scene over but does not add anything beyond impressive movie star charisma
McDormand is great, but not given much to work with
Walters is sublime, brings the shading, point of view that Hudson lacks, my winner
@markgordonuk - I'm going to expatriate you, you wanker. Julie Walters is a National Treasure.
Yay Marcia! But Zeta-Jones deserved to be a nominee.
I don't remember Zeta-Jones in Traffic (need a rewatch) but she'll be justly compensated in two years ;) I can't imagine her work in Traffic is that miraculous to warrant the "SNUB!" proclamations.
LOVED this panel like many have said. So nice when the writers give us full blurbs and thoughtful responses. I'd be fine bringing this group back for the next smackdown!
‘You need, you need, you need, you need!’ Giving each nominee an Oscar clip/clips does wonders for making me Want to see their performance. (Wake up, Academy telecast 2022). Pollock didn’t seem available at the time because it kind’ve only opened in CA/NY after Christmas and if it did come to your city, it might’ve been shown in one movie theater far from your house for about two weeks, then vanished. For that reason, I was going for Kate Hudson in the widely available Almost Famous. Must be nice to get Academy screeners. Perhaps studios can send them to loyal viewers. But seeing that ‘I need’ clip certainly forced to rent to movie down the road. (What’s renting a movie, says the Covid generation...)
I like Julie i just think this performance is over praised,like any actor you see a lot of you notice the bag of tricks and her big scene is cut off just when we were getting to the meat n bones of her character.
As I stated in my article, I have unending love for Almost Famous so my vote would go to Hudson. I also want to stick up for Frances McDormand, who carries the emotional weight all the way from that phone. Still, I loved hearing all the different takes from all of the panelists. Everyone had really interesting thoughts and played off one another nicely. I had liked Julie Walters' performance while watching the movie, but hadn't ranked it as high. After hearing Kyle talk about how her character would never expose that vulnerability to Billy, I appreciated her choices more. Similarly, Vella made me appreciate Judi Dench's physicality. Agree that Lena Olin was the best part of that film.
Overall, another great smackdown. 5 hearts all around.
Any lineup for this year that does not include Zhang Ziyi or Catherine Zeta Jones is a nothing lineup.
^ Hee Hee!!
I remember Connelly and Zeta-Jones being snubbed at the time and that playing a role in their narratives during their winning years. Zhang can be considered snubbed twice now for CTHD and Memoirs of a Geisha. And although O'Hara just won every awards possible for the last season of Schitt's Creek I can very easily see a "She's overdue!" story around her if she gets a good role soon.
Tom G -- it's really too bad they didn't go for O'Hara for one of the Guest movies.
Love this discussion.
I haven't seen BILLY ELLIOTT or CHOCOLAT in a decade, so I can't really comment on those films, but I rewatched POLLOCK a couple years ago and found myself completely impressed with Harden's raw, fully inhabited performance. At times Harris felt a bit much, but I never felt that way toward Harden. Having recently listened to her audiobook (thank you NYPL), she wrote about really fighting for the part and feeling so grateful to play it. Apparently Judy Davis was originally cast, or at least very close to being cast, before Harris finally chose Harden for the part.
Also, I'd not seen ALMOST FAMOUS in ages, but I rewatched it recently and found myself quite disappointed with nearly every aspect of the film. I'd always had McDormand as my "win" that year, but rewatching it I was startled by the slightness of her performance. She's still great, as always, but it just felt very small. One could make the case that she was actually more impressive in (the vastly superior) WONDER BOYS that year.
I thought Kate Hudson was very good, but the success of the performance relied heavily on her beauty, smile, likeness to Goldie Hawn, and great nostalgia-inducing music playing anytime she appeared onscreen. Don't get me wrong, she was still quite charming and lovable, but the performance felt lacking in real depth or substance by the end-- really due to Cameron Crowe's shortcomings, not hers. I felt Crowe's screenplay was actually the poorest part of the film-- with one-sided characters popping up out of nowhere, instantly telling their life's story unprovoked to strangers (the Anna Paquin and other "band-aide" characters felt particularly ridiculous in their falseness) read like a middle student's personal narrative. Further, I found the constant Patrick Fugit temper tantrum/monologues to be unnecessarily repetitive and increasingly tedious. A very messy, uneven narrative in my opinion that needed far more refining before it reached production. The tighter, well-paced, more succinct ERIN BROCKOVICH should've won Original Screenplay in a cakewalk.
Also, can I just say the 2000 Oscars produced one of the greatest quartet of acting winners ever? I would've only replaced Russell Crowe with Javier Bardem (in one of my all-time favorite films), though Russell Crowe was also great.
Roberts, del Toro, and Harden all would've been my personal choices as well.
Whoops, middle school* student